Is it worth bringing a summoner to raids?

[TheLenrir]

As it stands a SMN ideally needs a fellow caster companion to make them good in raids. Seen a fair few SMN/RDM pairings and they actually fare pretty well with each other. Otherwise a lone caster comp spot is more ideal for BLM/RDM, probably RDM more so due to emergency raise.

[loreleidiangelo]

I mean, it should say something that Eirene Snow, the player who basically wrote the guide on how to play 4.0 SMN, chooses to raid as an RDM. Maybe personal preference? Sure, but somehow I doubt it.

This only really affects serious groups pushing prog undergeared, though. If your group isn't going to see any serious phases on Neo until you're full 340 then I doubt it would matter as much as it does now.

[prophecy4seen]

I mean, it should say something that Eirene Snow, the player who basically wrote the guide on how to play 4.0 SMN, chooses to raid as an RDM. Maybe personal preference? Sure, but somehow I doubt it.

It doesnt say much, fflogs basically proves that the class is playable in all content. And while the damage is lower than its other 2 counterparts, it isn't actually as under-powered as people make out.. Take a fight like Neo exdeath. the top 5 summoners have the damage of the top 15blm/rdm. This damage is still more than sufficient. I personally dont believe the SMN problem is the damage.. I would like it to play better, but i dont really have issue with the rotation either.. I think the biggest problem summoners face right now is Mana & recovery from death.

There is a really simple change S.E. can make to resolve this, but this is not the place for that.

[TheLenrir]

Snip

I always imagined the main problem with SMN is we have regressed in a way from being a DoT class to a ruin mage. Looking at the casts/damage done by the 'top' SMNS, it's mainly from RuinII/III spams.

[Thela]

SMN/MCH changes coming for 4.06 on next tuesday: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_adjustments/

[prophecy4seen]

I always imagined the main problem with SMN is we have regressed in a way from being a DoT class to a ruin mage. Looking at the casts/damage done by the 'top' SMNS, it's mainly from RuinII/III spams.

But this isnt actually a problem. Because there are mechanistic around the play-style. Which would you say mechanically is more difficult 3.x or 4.0?

Its my opinion, but smn being a ruin mage.. or smn being a dot mage... neither of these matter, because ultimately they didnt do so well with the summoner class as a hole.. To my mind, Summoner was suppose to be a red mage (in terms of elemental damage spells). All these spells should be fillers building up whatever charge is needed to summon a primal which would then nuke for high damage. I dont believe in this 100% uptime pet/ghost/spirit/egi thing they currently have

[TheLenrir]

But this isnt actually a problem. Because there are mechanistic around the play-style. Which would you say mechanically is more difficult 3.x or 4.0?

Its my opinion, but smn being a ruin mage.. or smn being a dot mage... neither of these matter, because ultimately they didnt do so well with the summoner class as a hole.. To my mind, Summoner was suppose to be a red mage (in terms of elemental damage spells). All these spells should be fillers building up whatever charge is needed to summon a primal which would then nuke for high damage. I dont believe in this 100% uptime pet/ghost/spirit/egi thing they currently have

3.x personally, had to get your timings down to maximize Aetherflow/DWT optimisation, mainly since they were not on 24/7 like it is now.

What you're asking for though is probably never going to happen though. As nice as it would be, I can't see it.

[prophecy4seen]

3.x personally, had to get your timings down to maximize Aetherflow/DWT optimisation, mainly since they were not on 24/7 like it is now.

What you're asking for though is probably never going to happen though. As nice as it would be, I can't see it.

That Aetherflow/DWT optimasation your talking about is now basically been shifted into Aetherflow-Bahumut optimization, it hasnt really been lost, just been pushed a bit further. DWT now is pretty simplistic. In terms of left to right.."fun to play to hard to play".. I'd say its probably around the 60% mark on a ruler.. We originally used contagion to extend dots so we could cast more ruins (ironic). Now we have longer dots and a resetting tri disaster. And contagion has been turned into more or less a magical trick attack. To my mind, these are improvements... Would you rather the lockout of aetherflow be removed so you can use it in DWT? This would then mean bahumut does 1-3 less attacks

[TheLenrir]

That Aetherflow/DWT optimasation your talking about is now basically been shifted into Aetherflow-Bahumut optimization, it hasnt really been lost, just been pushed a bit further. DWT now is pretty simplistic. In terms of left to right.."fun to play to hard to play".. I'd say its probably around the 60% mark on a ruler.. We originally used contagion to extend dots so we could cast more ruins (ironic). Now we have longer dots and a resetting tri disaster. And contagion has been turned into more or less a magical trick attack. To my mind, these are improvements... Would you rather the lockout of aetherflow be removed so you can use it in DWT? This would then mean bahumut does 1-3 less attacks

Sure if Bahamut doesn't keep stalking me like a lost puppy. For a big, bad dragon with 100 Yalm range on all his attacks, he sure feels the need to keep a 10-20 yalm range with me as I adjust for positional's since 'mechanics'.

[prophecy4seen]

Sure if Bahamut doesn't keep stalking me like a lost puppy. For a big, bad dragon with 100 Yalm range on all his attacks, he sure feels the need to keep a 10-20 yalm range with me as I adjust for positional's since 'mechanics'.

Well in terms of things that should be simple to do.. i guess. Remove aetherflow lockout in DWT. Fix Bahamut (this is difficult because its basically made to function like eos rather than garuda movement wise. WW is insta cast so it moves alot more). by making it do its own thing once its target is selected (basically wyrmwave would just auto cast like windblade)..

Wyrm wave is stronger than windblade.. but if it was Queued the same way, the dragon wouldn't get as many attacks off during its up time.