What's up with healers not healing?

[missybee]

Please read what i said, i am not stating that DPSing on Healer is false or wrong.

I don't think you were saying it is wrong. I guess I am just of the opinion that no matter what the content, healers should try to be pushing DPS as hard as they can. Whether the DPS are amazing or absolutely terrible, the damage contributed by healers is still helpful.

...well, unless your DPS are pulling sub-3.0 numbers. Then any contribution a healer might make damage-wise is likely to be moot.

Yoshi P did say Healers should not have to DPS at all in raids in SB, so the blame lies on the DPS not pulling their weight, healers should not be forced into dps just to clear a raid.

For me, it has nothing to do with being "forced." I want to contribute as much to my team as possible in Savage. I think that should be everyone's goal. If DPS checks are super tight, it really isn't hard to cast an occasional damage spell to get a few hundred DPS to ensure a safer and speedier win.

[Faliandra]

Yoshi P did say Healers should not have to DPS at all in raids in SB, so the blame lies on the DPS not pulling their weight, healers should not be forced into dps just to clear a raid. DPS SHOULD NOT DIE, the amount of times dps floor tank is unreal. IF no one dies then DPS need to be doing the most they can.

good luck clearing o3s and o4s without any healer dps with the current gear most people have.

Sadly, deaths can happen.
Whether your healers dps or not. They just happen sometimes. Its human.
Its actually really ridiculous to expect dps to go all out with a maximum 100% dps uptime while flawlessly performing every mechanic while your healers stand around twiddling their thumbs.
In fact...if you do THAT, 1 death can decide over making the dps check or not. If both healers dps, the dps check is usually still doable even with 1 or 2 deaths (which is waaay more realistic).


Honestly (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular): If you cant DPS as a healer...you do NOT belong into savage raids. Especially not now when cleric stance is no longer a thing.
Go back into expert roulette, practise and git gud first.

edit: or wait a few months until youre fully geared with creation tome gear sets, everyone has their 330 weapons and all the accessories from o1s ..... then you can get yourself carried through savage with 0 healer dps. GG

[Laerune]

Healers not healing is the same as DPS underpreforming, Tanks not knowing when to pull less or more or stay in DPS or Tank stance. OP you met bad players, there are alot of them here, either kick them out or ignore them. When Healers and Tanks make mistakes or underpreform, its very obvious, this is not the case with DPS.

If parsers were allowed, this forum would have been full of threads talking about bad DPS players.

[missybee]

If parsers were allowed, this forum would have been full of threads talking about bad DPS players.

I honestly think it would be kind of 50/50.

There are a lot of people who think they are amazing at the game, but were they to parse, their numbers would tell them otherwise.

[akaneakki]

I honestly think it would be kind of 50/50.

There are a lot of people who think they are amazing at the game, but were they to parse, their numbers would tell them otherwise.

Yup, there are so many people who think they do good damage, mitigation or even healing. Just because they play the class doesn't mean they good at it. For instance a tank who takes the balls and dish out some dmg on the sword during sword phase in susano, he actually did rage of halone combo. Why? There is no aggro on that thing either... I think, I might be wrong, a parser would help a few but would also not motivate some people anymore from what I've read from some players. When they find out they actually doing bad it's gonna ring another bell.

community created problem.
After all those "non-dmg healers are lazy and should get kicked" threads some are now too afraid not focusing on dmg.

Community problem is many sponsor bad play. Many get teached so wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. When they start getting called out for not being so good after all, they just say''I'm having fun''. Thats completely fine, but dont go around say some weird shit like not using regen on tank since it generates aggro? Like what? Or the tank who does aggro combo on the things that doesn't even have aggro on. Like the sword in susano.

[F_Maximillian]

Yoshi P did say Healers should not have to DPS at all in raids in SB, so the blame lies on the DPS not pulling their weight, healers should not be forced into dps just to clear a raid. DPS SHOULD NOT DIE, the amount of times dps floor tank is unreal. IF no one dies then DPS need to be doing the most they can.

I'm going to preface this with the fact that I'm a tank main and generally heal as a second role.


Why is it fair to expect the dps (and tanks) to play at max/near max capacity while healers get to sit on their thumbs and do nothing for gcds and ignore huge portions of their skill kits? I know this argument has been brought up time and time again but with how laughably easy it is to dps now as a healer (it wasn't really hard to before, you just had to learn the fight and it was more unforgiving if you made mistakes with switching to cleric stance at a bad time) the days of 0/barely any dps healers should be long gone. Especially in all content below O3/4s where not enough damage goes out to justify sitting on gcds waiting for damage to happen. I don't think anyone expect 99th percentile fflogs dps from every healer they run into but just minimal effort to contribute shows that they aren't sitting around watching netflix while they play.

Naturally, the priority is keeping the party alive (yes, that means covering for mistakes that shouldn't happen like people eating aoes they shouldn't) but what's required to keep the party alive isn't very much in all but the toughest of content, especially in this patch. It does depend a lot on the players you're with as well but in 4-man settings there's no notable damage going out enough to wait for it to come and in 8-man settings you should be coordinating with your other healer naturally. The very nature of the healer roles should dictate all the coordination needed without saying a word and "main"/"off" healing shouldn't be a thing. If you have a shield and a regen healer the shield healer shields before hits and the regen healer heals after them, if you have 2 regen healers (which is fine outside of content that NEEDS shields for survival) then both of you patch damage up after it comes out. No words should need be said and just by following that simple guideline all content besides maybe savage can be healed smoothly. Outside of that there's a simple rule to follow, ABC (always be casting). If no healing is needed then you should be contributing to damage unless you need to conserve resources for upcoming mechanics. Whether or not you need to or want to is irrelevant nor does anyone really expect 100% of people to be able to do this flawlessly. Even the hall of the novice teaches you to throw out some damage spells if there's no healing to be done.

Now, there's a good possibility that the healers in the op were just slacking off but there's also a good possibility that they were learning to adjust to playing their classes better and made mistakes. If they corrected themselves and you didn't die to tank busters again then there's no real need to make a thread about it. Even if they didn't there still isn't any need for a thread about it either. When a dps eats an aoe trying to see if they can boost their damage output or a tank gets a bit greedy as well nobody seems to bat an eye but if a healer overestimates how much time they have to dps and someone dies it's a cardinal sin that warrants a forum post. I would much rather be a victim of a healer learning to play better than sit through runs with 0 dps healers that sit on their thumbs while expecting everyone else to play at max capacity.

I feel like there's an unfair burden on healers so when they try to branch out and improve themselves they get villified for mistakes. This isn't a good way to make people want to heal and drives potential healers away from the role. All the while people make forum threads about how long their queue times are and why does nobody play tanks or healers while two threads up someone is complaining about their healers.

Tl;dr people expect either too much or too little of healers and not much of any other role.

[Taika]

Yoshi P did say Healers should not have to DPS at all in raids in SB

Has he actually said this? Can you provide us with a source?

(Even if he has, it doesn't really matter in any way, since healer DPS is obviously required for the later floors at least until the group is much more geared than any groups currently are.)

[technole]

You aren't clearing O3S/O4S without any tank or healer DPS currently, so good luck with that.

Notice all those XPFs for O3S out there asking for people to do damage? I wonder why...

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If a healers DPSing, I expect a perfect run with no healing related wipes or deaths, because they clearly have the run down to the letter. It's not expecting too much to expect a healer to not let people die, that's expecting them to perform their base role. When said basic role is compromised? Nothing wrong with getting someone else that can actually perform that basic task.

And why not? I hold myself to the same standard after all.

[missybee]

"...expecting them to perform their base role."

I hold myself to the same standard after all.

Careful. Don't want to push yourself too hard now.