I Love 4.0 Summoner. A lot.

[i2agnarok]

SMN is above BRD in Hali, Exdeath, and Neo Exdeath, though...

They're even above BRD if you filter by All Bosses. For the record, I don't totally disagree, but I think "hard pressed," is a bit of a stretch....

[Ariomi]

SMN is above BRD in Hali, Exdeath, and Neo Exdeath, though...

They're even above BRD if you filter by All Bosses. For the record, I don't totally disagree, but I think "hard pressed," is a bit of a stretch....

It's like a 20 dps difference with Hali, Bard being only slightly lower, and if you are looking at exdeath and neo, Summoner is in the same situation with Red Mage.

Red Mage and Bard bring much more utility, and bring better, or similar amounts of dps. I wonder how much of Summoner dps there, is fluff from adds.

[Dyvid]

It's like a 20 dps difference with Hali, Bard being only slightly lower, and if you are looking at exdeath and neo, Summoner is in the same situation with Red Mage.

Red Mage and Bard bring much more utility, and bring better, or similar amounts of dps. I wonder how much of Summoner dps there, is fluff from adds.

Can you explain the utility that RDM is bringing? I know the unlimited Rez is a thing now but once players move on to farming it's a moot point because you won't have a lot of deaths that the healer can't deal with. Other than that what else does RDM have over SMN? Just curious really.

[Ariomi]

Can you explain the utility that RDM is bringing?

Red Mage has Embolden, which is a buff to all physical damage for 20 Seconds. Starts at 10% and dwindles down. Summoner brings 2% Physical damage increase with radiant shield, or contagion which is 10% magic damage increase for 10 seconds. You will hardly notice either buffs.

Red Mage heavily synergies with teams, as most teams only have one caster(Caster being red mage), meaning that if you have Bard, Ninja, and a Monk, Embolden would stack with things such as Foe Requiem, Brotherhood, and Trick attack would benefit all the dps and the tanks more then Contagion and Radiant Shield are able to. Summoner is also more selfish with their mana, (They need their mp to do more damage,) While Red Mage can freely Mana pass to Bard's to extend Foe Requiem without it effecting their dps. A Mana Pass would steal two Ruin 3's from a summoner.

[Dregenfox]

Red Mage has Embolden, which is a buff to all physical damage for 20 Seconds. Starts at 10% and dwindles down. Summoner brings 2% Physical damage increase with radiant shield, or contagion which is 10% magic damage increase for 10 seconds. You will hardly notice either buffs.

I read on reddit test thread that Radiant shield actually reflects damage off both aoe magical and physical attacks, but doesn't show up in parser. If true summoners are doing ~150 or so dps more that's not included in fflogs, which could account for why their DPS looks so low. Especially with the 3x physical meta and nerfed contagion it just doesn't seem worth it to bring garuda over ifrit.

Anyway it's still worth it to consider these buffs since the ifrit shield can account for as much as 5% of a summoner's dps contribution. Though yeah the garuda magic-only buff seems lackluster in comparison, prob 1% at best.

[Ariomi]

Anyway it's still worth it to consider these buffs since the ifrit shield can account for as much as 5% of a summoner's dps contribution. Though yeah the garuda magic-only buff seems lackluster in comparison, prob 1% at best.

As a Summoner, I have never seen Radiant Shield Proc off anything Magical. The only exceptions are things like Sophia's tank buster, which count as physical? In Susano, During Lightning phase, only auto attacks seems to proc it. And Radiant Shield would be more like 1-2% of a Summoner's dps at maximum. Even if you were to include 50 potency scaled from a tank.

[Dyvid]

I read on reddit test thread that Radiant shield actually reflects damage off both aoe magical and physical attacks, but doesn't show up in parser. If true summoners are doing ~150 or so dps more that's not included in fflogs, which could account for why their DPS looks so low. Especially with the 3x physical meta and nerfed contagion it just doesn't seem worth it to bring garuda over ifrit.

Anyway it's still worth it to consider these buffs since the ifrit shield can account for as much as 5% of a summoner's dps contribution. Though yeah the garuda magic-only buff seems lackluster in comparison, prob 1% at best.

This is correct but FFlogs is finally shows the damage but it's added to the player hit not the summoners. On average the dps from RS is equal to Flaming Crush, Crimson Cyclone, Inferno (......), and even some fights it creeps up to shadow flare levels.

[Letz]

Red Mage has Embolden, which is a buff to all physical damage for 20 Seconds. Starts at 10% and dwindles down. Summoner brings 2% Physical damage increase with radiant shield, or contagion which is 10% magic damage increase for 10 seconds. You will hardly notice either buffs.

First off, Contagion is 15 seconds, not 10. Which means, 10% damage buff for 15 seconds is better than Embolden which starts at 10% and starts dwindling after just 4 secs. So if you hardly notice contagion, you certainly won't notice Embolden. Secondly, radiant shield is the only cd between RDM and SMN that will benefit the tanks and both mag/phys dps, since it adds the 50 potency counterattack for autos and raidwide aoe damage (which will proc for all kinds of damage beside darkness, btw). Aside from the 2% phys damage buff, RS counters can be seen in parses like this one:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/JadQx...-done&source=9

[prophecy4seen]

First off, Contagion is 15 seconds, not 10. Which means, 10% damage buff for 15 seconds is better than Embolden which starts at 10% and starts dwindling after just 4 secs. So if you hardly notice contagion, you certainly won't notice Embolden. Secondly, radiant shield is the only cd between RDM and SMN that will benefit the tanks and both mag/phys dps, since it adds the 50 potency counterattack for autos and raidwide aoe damage (which will proc for all kinds of damage beside darkness, btw). Aside from the 2% phys damage buff, RS counters can be seen in parses like this one:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/JadQx...-done&source=9

This is also a point i wanted to make in my post, but it was getting a bit lengthy. Contagion is actually huge. But most wont realize it because they dont run double caster groups.(dont forget healer dps)

[Letz]

So maybe the problem here is that Red Mage is overtuned, and is rewarding far too much dps for the effort. Currently, I have 96ish percentile on O2s on my Summoner for example. That number puts me ahead of the vast majority of Rdm's, but, therefore, if they increased Summoner's potential dps, that would be too high imo compared to blm and monk.

The issue is the average summoner can't keep up with the average Rdm when rdm is so much easier to play at a competitive level due to more straightforward job design.