No Love for DOH/DOL ; ;

[Cape-Freak]

I don't think it would be unreasonable if crafters / harvesters could do some damage with their weapons (say at or below GLA damage levels). I could also imagine them also having access to some buffs / debuffs. I think that the abilities might be passive or something (if they were like 1hr duration and were any good then people would switch to DoL/H, buff, switch back to a "real" combat job).

I generally agree with this, though I think the DoL/DoH classes should do strictly less damage than the dedicated DoW/DoM classes, and should serve more of a support role in combat, since they have other things they can do outside of battle. Though I do wonder how xp/sp gain would work in that case, especially since SE is considering removing physical levels and crafters getting crafting skill from combat seems a little odd.

Before they made items degrade so slowly you could even have a thing where if a crafter made that item then it didn't degrade while a crafter of that type was in the party with you. Could also have like crafter of the kind that makes the item gives that item a +10% bonus to stats while in group or something (I think someone else mentioned this).

I like those ideas, and if memory serves, I think they had mentioned some similar sorts of things in interviews prior to release. I wonder why they didn't follow through on those?

[urhryu]

I believed that DOL/DOH classes have already serves their purpose as a crafter/gatherer. I don't see any point in them participating in battle.

Reasons:
1) If we need extra buff or treasure hunter, etc. We should wait for SE to expand other battle classes etc.
2) If DOH/DOL is to participate in battle and gain SP just like DOW/DOM, I don't think I want to rank them by throwing gils to rank them up through tedious crafting.

Maybe one good way of making DOH/DOL class useful in battles is by FF11 system of Main/sub, but using Main (DOW/DOM) and Sub (DOH/DOL).

That should solve the issue. It's just a penny of my thought.

[Peregrine]

In the social caste system, the current status of each discipline is like:
Battlers: [IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-----]
Crafters: [IIIIIIIIIIIII---------]
Gatherers: [III------------------]

Gathering to be a gatherer is dead because of developmental inattention and the jobs were stepped all over by crafters early on. Extinct by the end of october.

A crafter can still hold their own due to increased attention to its economics, but they lack equal content design to battlers.

Battlers are use to having more influence than even that, so they pushed to knock crafters down the pile and have largely succeeded with the introduction of raid content before crafting and gathering content, gear NM drops, and more developer focus.

There's no such thing as a botanist, miner, or fisherman though. All of them are just crafting tools now.

[urhryu]

Hmmm, if you ask me, I definitely wana play DOW/DOM classes for battling content, storyline quest as compared to DOH/DOL, even if DOH/DOL is to participate in the battle, I believed it will be much less fun compared to the original battling class with appropriate skills.

Question is then Why play DOH/DOL?
For me, I play DOH because it's something different and fun in another perspective.
i) Repair own and other's gear.
ii) Making gears, challenging on HQ, feels cool.

For DOL, I used them to save cost gathering my own mats for crafting, gathering lots of mats is fun to me too.
"Yes! I've got 99 walnut log, 99 iron ore, etc"

Both DOH and DOL is already much fun as compared to other MMO in my opinion. To others maybe boring,
but I give credit to the SE as it's somehow original (I like it)

To conclude, Battling class should always be the main class to enjoy game play, storyline content.

"But...I don't like battling class as it's boring, I like DOH or DOL more"
Maybe some might felt so, but isn't it strange if battling class is boring? The game will probably be dead if that's the case.
Which is why I hope SE makes more improvement to battling system as priority.

Nevertheless, DOH and DOL adds fun to the game in another aspect as I mentioned and I loved playing them too.
But if people find it boring or less fun compared to battling class, maybe just concentrate on DOW or DOM which I know there are many who does just that. It's cool too.

Looking forward to Black Mage class ^^

[CelestialFurry]

To conclude, Battling class should always be the main class to enjoy game play, storyline content.

For me, I just enjoy DoH and DoL more. I like that I can do them on my own and that it's something that I can customize to the amount of attention I feel like putting into the game at the moment. I only use my battle classes for farming mats or if I'm bored after I've done all of my local and DoL leves and grinded all my mats and gil away. Battling and I don't really get along. And honestly, if that's how I want to play the game, then it should be an option.

I really enjoy botany for botany's sake, even though it's a class that's pretty close to useless for me. I don't have much interest in carpenter or culinarian right now and the only thing I need to harvest is flax. But, I still play Botany a couple of hours a day, simply because I enjoy it. And that's what I should be able to do. Yes, it makes more sense to add in development for DoW/M first, because according the surveys, that's what a majority of players play.

But, if they don't make some changes to DoL soon, then it's going to become even more obsolete, because even players that enjoy the class won't want to place the dedication in. It's already getting to that point-- we don't get nearly the SP that other classes get and the difficulty to reward ratio is often way off. For instance, how is a lauan log a grade 4 drop, when it's a rank 1-5 carpenter item.

I think that once they fix some minor things about the DoL classes and add in housing, furniture, etc., then DoL jobs will be more in demand. I mean, how is someone going to build a house without a massive amount of wood and nails? And the amount of shards needed will be massive as well, so the demand for crystals will go up.

[urhryu]

I really enjoy botany for botany's sake, even though it's a class that's pretty close to useless for me. I don't have much interest in carpenter or culinarian right now and the only thing I need to harvest is flax. But, I still play Botany a couple of hours a day, simply because I enjoy it. And that's what I should be able to do. Yes, it makes more sense to add in development for DoW/M first, because according the surveys, that's what a majority of players play.

But, if they don't make some changes to DoL soon, then it's going to become even more obsolete, because even players that enjoy the class won't want to place the dedication in. It's already getting to that point-- we don't get nearly the SP that other classes get and the difficulty to reward ratio is often way off. For instance, how is a lauan log a grade 4 drop, when it's a rank 1-5 carpenter item.

That's really cool. I myself love DOL so much that even with the current system, I'm continuing them even if I hit 50 cap as they are fun and free and good money^^.
Too bad only a handful of us like you and me like it so much will continue as it is now. (Or is it only me?)
Well, that's the figure I guess, not too sure how many out there really like the DOL as it is.

I like cooking, but what is the main problem with cooking? The main problem is cooking is not getting any closer compared to other DOH as the food is not really useful, not to mention the massive ingredient lol.
So what's more important for a cook? Make the food more useful so that people will start consuming them like FFXI.
For me, that's sufficient, won't really think a great exciting battle/storyline needed for cook. But there's always someone that want their main cook to battle with others, providing buff etc.

I remembered someone mentioning in the forum that since DOH can participate in battle, "my fighter wana take part in crafting too" People are greedy.
A : "I want my mage to deal massive damage in battle, at the same time able to repair and make mage gears with some talent of fishing, harvesting and mining things which involve magic"

B : "And what the hell is harvesting involving magic??"

A : "Oh, let me explain, for example walnut wand is make from walnut log ingredient, I dun mind my mage can't harvest up food ingredient, but at least let my mage harvest what mage need and make what they need, I dun want to be just a normal mage, i need more stuff!"

B : "@@'"

[CelestialFurry]

I have every intention of continuing with botany, even with the current system, just cause it's fun. But I'm afraid that there won't be too many people like you or me, which will make it less of a priority, and in turn will cause SE to place less focus on updates for DoL, which will only make less people want to play the class.

For cooking, I think the buffs are useful as is, but no one know what foods do what. We need a place to publicize what foods do, so more people understand the buffs and demand increases. The first class I started working on was Cul, but I stopped at r25, after it became evident that there just wasn't much demand.

I remembered someone mentioning in the forum that since DOH can participate in battle, "my fighter wana take part in crafting too" People are greedy.
A : "I want my mage to deal massive damage in battle, at the same time able to repair and make mage gears with some talent of fishing, harvesting and mining things which involve magic"

B : "And what the hell is harvesting involving magic??"

A : "Oh, let me explain, for example walnut wand is make from walnut log ingredient, I dun mind my mage can't harvest up food ingredient, but at least let my mage harvest what mage need and make what they need, I dun want to be just a normal mage, i need more stuff!"

B : "@@'"

Oh, see that high level mage can dabble in any crafts or harvesting they want to, they just have to switch tools. As it is, a DoH/DoL character is about as useful in battle as a r1 mage trying to harvest cedar.

Although I am trying to get a battle event to happen with my LS: Stone the Pieste. We get a bunch of high rank crafters and harvesters together and see how long we can survive using only stone throw. So far I don't have any takers

[urhryu]

I'm harvesting log and ores for my own use tho. If DOL population is getting thinner and thinner, there will be a time where the log and ores price go unbelievably insane. May not feel it now @ 50cap but DOH will certainly feel the pinch after cap raise where only higher rank DOL is able to get their hands on the mats for high rank crafting.

As such, I'm not really worrying that people will give up DOL, if such situation do happen, my main income of gil will come from DOL instead of DOH aiming for HQ3.