Is it worth bringing a summoner to raids?

[Ariomi]

I'll test weakness after work.

For as long as I can remember it has been like this. Food seems to be the only exception.

So I summoned my pet, took off most my gear. Pet stayed at 28k hp. You can see I'm at 9k hp.



Re-Summoned it in current gear. Carby dropped to around the same amount of health as me.



Put my gear back on, Carby and I have switched places completely. I am at 31k health and carby isn't even at 10k hp.

All you need to do to see that pet snapshots stats is taking everything off, and looking at it's hp when you put on gear.

[Rawrz]

For as long as I can remember it has been like this. Food seems to be the only exception.

So I summoned my pet, took off most my gear. Pet stayed at 28k hp. You can see I'm at 9k hp.



Re-Summoned it in current gear. Carby dropped to around the same amount of health as me.



Put my gear back on, Carby and I have switched places completely. I am at 31k health and carby isn't even at 10k hp.

All you need to do to see that pet snapshots stats is taking everything off, and looking at it's hp when you put on gear.

Did you have him use any attacks? Did you rouse?

[Ariomi]

Did you have him use any attacks? Did you rouse?

Yup. At 8k health Carbuncle does around 900 damage per auto attack. (I mainly removed all my left side gear, keeping on accessories and such.)

When Carby is at 28000hp he normally does right around 1900-2k per cast. Feel free to test it out on your leisure.

[Sunako]

That also not prove do the "debuff" affect damage if you swap gear in and out. You need some further testing with and without weakness.

[Ariomi]

That also not prove do the "debuff" affect damage if you swap gear in and out. You need some further testing with and without weakness.

Here's the thing though. When a Summoner dies, they automatically lose their pet. 25% personal weakness, with your pet that is also dead and 20% of your dps gone. That's 45% of your dps without your pet having weakness. With how stats seem to be snapshotted, Just makes a bad situation, even worse.

Let's say your pet loses 20% of their dps,

[Sunako]

I am not sure, but i think weakness works same way than potion/food. Your pet temporaly have 25% less stats etc. Would be stupid if you would need summon new pet after weakness is over. I have never done that atleast myself.

[Stormblessed9000]

Here's the thing though. When a Summoner dies, they automatically lose their pet. 25% personal weakness, with your pet that is also dead and 20% of your dps gone. That's 45% of your dps without your pet having weakness. With how stats seem to be snapshotted, Just makes a bad situation, even worse.

Let's say your pet loses 20% of their dps,

The loss from not having a summoned pet is only really relevant if you don't just swiftcast (or hardcast I guess) it back after you die. Also, if it wasn't effected by weakness, you'd actually be less effected by death in that 20% of your damage remains untouched. However, there's also the issue of death screwing with buildup that hurts the burst-phase heavy summoners pretty badly.

[Ariomi]

The loss from not having a summoned pet is only really relevant if you don't just swiftcast (or hardcast I guess) it back after you die. Also, if it wasn't effected by weakness, you'd actually be less effected by death in that 20% of your damage remains untouched. However, there's also the issue of death screwing with buildup that hurts the burst-phase heavy summoners pretty badly.

The other issue is mana. Depending on when you die, You may not have the mana up for your pet. Do you summon your pet and have it attack while you struggle for mana, or you do wait however long till you get the mp? Chances are you will be without your pet for some time with how high Summoner's spells cost.

[Rawrz]

Feel free to test it out on your leisure.

Sure did! Conclusion: Weakness does not affect pets.

Base Stats:


Base Stats with Brink of Death:


Base Physick for sample:


Brink of Death Physick [50% as potent]:


Base Embrace as example:


Brink of Death Embrace [No Change]:


Interestingly, SCHs can have their pets, at least selene, fix their hp from our earlier gear removal discussion. Casting fey wind updates her stats. I imagine the arrow would do the same for ifrit but overall irrelevant to combat.

[Osmond]

I love the concept of summoner but in my opinion I feel like it is lack luster for all the effort you put in. Make a mistake or die it's too punishing.

I'm no genius when it comes to class reworks, but how about making summoner a support with high burst through temporary summons. I see a lot of people hating on the pet AI, so why not have the pet be an ability than a pet. Or maybe like an evoker where you take on the aspect of one of your summons for a period of time. I'm going to write something up like others in the forums. But what do you think of my basic idea? I'll write a list of abilities that would 've changed a little later

SMN is fine in raiding. It just those who know how to play the new changes shine in raids.................except devotion.....so useless.