What happened to SB (story)?

[Galgarion]

A huge load of aether.
Be it from piles of crystals, a light crystal (that will kill the owner of the light crystal) or from 2 dragon eyes

And a storm of emotions. It don't have to be religious emotions. I'm sure Tiamat had no religious emotions while she summoned her dead husband as a primal 5000 years ago.


It was a single dragon who summoned Bahamut, not a slew

https://youtu.be/R3kTEy710Ss?t=85

We were discussing the ones being tortured by the Alagans to keep B summoned, not his origin. Speaking of which, why did they do that? Was there a purpose for it beyond just being dicks?

[Jandor]

We were discussing the ones being tortured by the Alagans to keep B summoned, not his origin. Speaking of which, why did they do that? Was there a purpose for it beyond just being dicks?

If he "died" then he could have been re-summoned, then the Allagans would have to fight him all over again. Trapping him with tempered followers prevents his death and removes the possibility of him being re-summoned elsewhere.

Probably also partly because they were dicks.

[demonofelru]

Really what bothered me is how SE basically jokes around about how you supposedly cannot defeat primals alone, while according to the ARR and HW story you do all the time without any help.

No, you don't. There is more than 1 WoL. Many instances where you fight a primal, you are told to go gather some adventures (other WoL) to help you with the battle.

[Dualgunner]

No, you don't. There is more than 1 WoL. Many instances where you fight a primal, you are told to go gather some adventures (other WoL) to help you with the battle.

I heard somewhere the lorebook says otherwise, so the canon could be questionable there. For instance: why don't they show up in or around cutscenes? For specific fights it also makes no sense for you to not be solo--like against Ramuh. Where'd you get the 4 extra "WoL" to fight the final boss of SB? (I say 4 due to having a 4 man dungeon immediately preceeding--though your three friends are mysteriously gone as well) You are definitely canonically solo against the HW final dungeon and boss.

EDIT: The lore does point out you're not the only one with Echo, but again, having a full party of eight in a lot of those instances...doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Well, basically, SB wasn't an expansion about a war, or a fight for freedom between two nations.

It was, literally, a huge excuse to go to Doma. This is just FFXIV gone eastern style. All the detail is out into making FFXIV as eastern themed as possible, and to hell with how lackluster the story is. Ala Mhigo felt like an afterthought rather than our reason for everything. Heck, a lot of the time in the story, I asked myself why no one didn't do this before if it was as simple as taking over a couple Castrums and killing Zenos. Heck, it would have been even easier before Shinryu came into the picture.

HW felt like we were up against actually dangerous people. Gods. Dragons.
SB we're up against a guy who's for whatever reason the strongest thing ever. And we needed the entirety of Doma for that?

[Dark-Saviour]

It was, literally, a huge excuse to go to Doma. This is just FFXIV gone eastern style.

I could excuse this if

1) They hadn't forced Ala Mhigo to be the bookends. Honestly, I'd say stay away from it entirely unless you're going to pay off the idea that the full weight of Garlemald will soon be storming into our domain, but either way... If they had to start us off there, just give us the Fringes and Rhalgr's Reach, then end that story after the resistance is crushed for now.
2) Doma felt like more than a small city. If the rest of it was just superfluous and Doma was to be the star, make Doma actually feel like a grand, interesting place. Have a large city (Garlean-held, ruins, or whatever) like Kugane, small fishing villages, a zone full of small farms and trade-routes, some mountain towns, and a hidden Shinobi community. Give us something more than a few ruinous buildings, a castle/dungeon, and a village with a dozen NPCs.

Doma was someplace I wanted to visit ever since Yugiri and the refugees were introduced, but now I'd honestly prefer it just remained untapped potential...

:-/

[CosmicKirby]

And this I think, is where you're getting your wires crossed. Humans of earth of Earth are people of faith. We believe lots of stuff that we hope is true. That isn't the same thing for the setting of FFXIV, though. The greater races of Eorzeans aren't "people of faith." They live in a world of Godly literalism. They don't believe that their world was created by a goddess in the shape of a large white crystal. They know that it was as a literal and demonstrable fact.

No. By and large, no.
There very much are religions and institutions of faith within Eorzea. There are cathedrals, there are rituals and services to the twelve, and there are certainly those who disbelieve or are ignorant of others within them. For the most part, many people in Eorzea 'know' of Hydaelyn, but don't offer her worship in any way. Some are certainly skeptical of her, because she 'only' seems to commune with people who have her blessing, IE the WoL, Scions, and the former Scholars of Baldesion. To say there's 'literalism' within Eorzea is incorrect, as at no point are the Twelve actually within existence, (that we know of yet) and they're likely powered and fueled by religion in that same way that Primals are. This isn't Dungeons and Dragons, Bahamut himself isn't giving clerics magical spells and miracles for worshipping him, and primals are not in-fact gods. A RECURRING THEME within the narrative, is the Scions trying to convince the beastribes that what they THINK is a God, is in fact, just a primal, an artificial construct of their zeitgeist and zeal.

And to say that it's 'demonstrable' would mean that people have, through study and example, can prove Hydaelyn exists and created Eorzea is partially true. The Scions know it because they've talked to her, the Scholars similarly, but at the same time there's limited solidifying fact from THEIR perspective that it's all true. Louisioux was an agnostic partially because he questioned Hydaelyn and the state of cosmic conflict she has with the Ascians and Zodiark.

Louisoix himself wasn't a particularly religious man, but according to Alphanaud, he nearly "Unleashed the power of the twelve when he tried to bind Bahamaut. " If a Sharlyan agnostic can almost bring about ragnarok, then why couldn't a guy like Ilberd? The further the game's story goes, the more we learn that there are no rules set in stone when it comes to the gods. "If you have sufficient motivation, and enough resources, you can call up whatever you want", is basically what we've learned.

He unleashed their power by going through a very religious ritual, marking stones with the religious symbols of the Twelve and offering prayers. Also worth noting, this plan, FAILED Bahamut was bound by Louisoix's magic, not the twelve's.
It's far more believable that Lousoix was capable of this, because he was an Archon, lived his entire life studying magic, was shown and spoken of to be a mage of almost unreachable renown, and had Tupsimati, an artifact written to have as much of a magical significance as other similar McGuffins (Such as stupid eye balls)
The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

And again, the ultimate point here. If 'anyone' can summon primals like that, there should be far more primals. It's completely unbelievable that some subjugated mortal race in any of the 5,000 years the Twelve have been in their pantheon has not successfully summoned one. At LEAST with the rules that were seemingly established throughout 2.0, it was somewhat believable.

[Dualgunner]

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

I think the implication is the Ascians explained to him how to do it to the letter; I agree it's something he wouldn't have been able to pull off alone. The Ascians explained to Tiamat how to summon Bahamut as a Primal, for instance*.


*IIRC

[Felis]

The fact that Illberd, a random Mercenary of no stated magical prowess or knowledge until he somehow summons a primal that can allegedly rival Bahamut... You see why this isn't consistent yet? Illberd didn't 'earn' the right to seem that powerful.

He had help from the dark side

[CosmicKirby]

He had help from the dark side

Yes, I'm aware. It's obvious to anyone that was paying attention.

How is Bahamut, a direct son of a direct Spawn of Hydaelyn herself, (Who was also probably helped by the Ascians to summon him as a primal) who was then brought back as a perfected vision of his former self, via two LIVING dragon eyes, equal in power to a completely fabricated being of nebulous rage, with a couple dozen dead soldiers (some of whom were athiest) and two well drained dragon's eyes?