Where are the Raids??

[LathusWHM]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Ffxiv is not your typical "raid" 24 mans are casual nonsense. 8 mans are raids.

[LathusWHM]

Thanks for the info, I still don't think they should be called raids as all you are doing is fighting a single mob and just feels like a boss fight. Nonetheless, I do look forward to the bigger raids. I'm far from the competitive best in slot person and just want to get to a level to where I can least clear any new content without much trouble. At the moment I'm 303 Item level and am doing duties to get the 310 gear and just did 1.0 and doing 1 dungeon or primal a day with my dailies as RL does not give me more than 2 hrs a day.

In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

[Tracewood]

I like Destiny bungies raid type, FFXIV need raids if Puzzles no only boss fights

Destiny raids work because they have checkpoints, though O4S actually started using those if I'm not mistaken. Deltascape savage feel more like harder EX primals than anything, and honestly that's fine.

The 24 mans feel like actual raids (like Destiny) because you're going through an area fighting mini bosses and main bosses with their own mechanics and such. Too bad the gear isn't always worth it unless it's for an alt/glamour, it's there to upgrade the tome pieces.

[Penthea]

Thanks for the info, I still don't think they should be called raids as all you are doing is fighting a single mob and just feels like a boss fight.

Players call them raids because they're 8 man content. 24 man raids are technically 8 man content given that you can queue as a max of 8.

[Nezerius]

Destiny raids work because they have checkpoints, though O4S actually started using those if I'm not mistaken.

As far as I know, Diabolos in Dun Scaith was the first boss to use this sort-of checkpoint system. Wiping after the first phase would keep Diabolos in the post-phase 1 form.

[Torquil]

In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

I could really blow this out of the water and make a list two dozen long, but I won't...

The Rathe council in Everquest 1 (and source of the MMO term "council fight" which is a raid boss that consists of many individual target-able bosses. There's literally a term for what you are describing).
As early as Everquest 2's first expansion (perhaps early...but this is the earliest instance I'm aware of) there is a type of fight that involves 2 bosses and keeping them at roughly the same health. The first raid of Alexander in XIV is similar

That said, I don't think the number of bosses in the "boss encounter" matters to the OPs original point. You could easily have trials that involve multiple bosses as well.

The fundamental point is, there is nothing within the duty itself that differentiates an 8-man raid from a Trial. You are not "raiding" a "space". This has gotten worse with every expansion release. Fundamentally, I blame the fact that they feel the need to make the 8man raid's separately queueable. As long as that is a fundamental design point, you'll never get away with the "raids feel like trials" problem.

(This isn't an actual argument point, but I'll point it out since it's kinda funny. Not only are we not "raiding" deltascape, we're literally invited/threatened to participate. )

[KarstenS]

Players call them raids because they're 8 man content.

They call them raids as they (Savage) are the hardest current content in the game.

[Frizze]

Also, the game classifies them as "raids". If i look in the duty finder, theyre on the "raids" tab. So thats what they are. Raids.

[Alisi]

In what raid, in any other mmo have you fought 2 bosses simultaneously? Adds do not count as they are not a boss.

OP wasn't talking about fighting two bosses together (though it's called a council fight when an encounter has more than one boss in it.) Other MMOs structure all their raids to be like the 24 man raids. If you come from WoW and are told the Omega is a raid, well, it just doesn't feel like a raid. There you clear trash, kill boss, clear trash, kill boss, etc. until it's finished.

[Ekimmak]

It used to be that the raids had trash in them.

Even savage tier had it's first floor of Alexander have a Faust that required a certain DPS check to be met to even get a look at the boss. Unfortunately, it was tuned so tightly that most people couldn't pass, and they've done away with the trash mobs.

Technically, Deltascape as a whole is the raid, not four separate raids. But can you imagine how obnoxious it would be to have to break through the earlier, already cleared bosses that aren't going to give loot every time you time out?

There's a reason Savage forces you to the start come every reset.