Tank BIS is crafted acc's, that's a problem.

[Dizzy_Derp]

No and no. Tenacity is not weak, and dh melds are not "so effective". Please stop repeating that drivel as it's been demonstrated to be false many times. It's like some dps wannabe fanboy who rolled the wrong job declared that even the tiniest of damage increase is better than any amount of damage reduction and all the mindless sheep just assumed he was right.

It's fact, tenacity is a sub optimal stat. The damage reduction is miniscule and will not affect you in the slightest. This game is based on big attacks that you CD through. A stat like ten just doesn't really have a place with the way damage comes out. There is no such demonstration that shows ten is a good stat. It's not a terrible one but damage is king period end of story there is no possible debate to this fact. Coming back to the point, because damage us king crafted is bis and will be continue to be for the entirety of the expansion if scaling stays the same.

[LittleSparrow]

It's fact, tenacity is a sub optimal stat. The damage reduction is miniscule and will not affect you in the slightest. This game is based on big attacks that you CD through. A stat like ten just doesn't really have a place with the way damage comes out. There is no such demonstration that shows ten is a good stat. It's not a terrible one but damage is king period end of story there is no possible debate to this fact. Coming back to the point, because damage us king crafted is bis and will be continue to be for the entirety of the expansion if scaling stays the same.

I disagree. Tanks tank, damage should be a secondary priority.

[Sarcatica]

I disagree. Tanks tank, damage should be a secondary priority.

Another one doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

[LittleSparrow]

Another one doesn't know how to tank in FFXIV.

Yes. This comment totally adds anything of worth to the conversation.

Rude.

Yes, and?

Of course damage is second priority. However, most good tanks learned how to tank and do tanky-things forever ago, and frankly the mere act of holding aggro, positioning, and mitigating damage is extremely easy. So believe it or not, even aggressive tanks consider damage second priority, its just we complete our first priority very quickly and move on.

Sitting there dwelling on or struggling to meet that first priority isn't indicative of skill or being more in touch with tanking as a job, its just an inability or refusal to remove training wheels. Tenacity is the tread on those wheels.

I haven't tanked end game content yet, but it just seems common sense to me. What's a tank worth when he's dead ya know?

I can imagine str or dh being better if you already know the fights and know what you'll have to endure, but we don't when it comes to upcoming content, do we?

[aleph_null]

I haven't tanked end game content yet, but it just seems common sense to me. What's a tank worth when he's dead ya know?

I can imagine str or dh being better if you already know the fights and know what you'll have to endure, but we don't when it comes to upcoming content, do we?

The current end game content has been out for over 5 weeks, idk what upcoming content you're talking about. The next patch (4.1) won't be here until like 2 months from now, when people talk about BiS they're talking about BiS for the current 5 savage fights we have now.

The extra tenacity you gain from a full tenacity build over the predicted BiS (dps wise) is like 3% worth of extra mitigation, it's nowhere near enough to affect your mitigation planning or your healers' heal planning. Taking 1200 less dmg on a 40k tank buster won't suddenly make you able to tank it without your usual cooldowns, and your healers won't suddenly do one less cure/benefic on you.

Also,

I disagree. Tanks tank, damage should be a secondary priority.

you make it sound like tanks who stack direct hit over tenacity don't know how to mitigate damage. Any extra mitigation on top of the bare minimum you need to survive in a content can be valued based on the extra safety net they offer, and the extra healer dps they afford. If staying in tank stance and stacking up tenacity is optimal, as in, the extra healer dps they can get would outweigh your personal dps loss, most of the top speedkill groups would have done that. Their tanks can stay in dps stance 100% of the time and stack direct hit, do 95+ percentile dps while still allowing both their healers do 95+ percentile dps as well. They don't neglect their job, they're just optimizing for the highest group dps since they want the shortest kill time possible. Extra tankiness doesn't make the boss die faster.

[Capn_Goggles]

I can imagine str or dh being better if you already know the fights and know what you'll have to endure, but we don't when it comes to upcoming content, do we?

Strength and Direct Hit will almost definitely remain the best melds throughout the entirety of 4.x unless they go back to giving us partial vitality to damage, which I do not see happening. Hit points are only important up to the point where they let you survive the tank busters, with anything much past that just being pointless.

The idea that tanking means only soaking up hits and holding aggro simply doesn't work in this game since tanks basically function as DPS with extra responsibilities.

[SyzzleSpark]

I disagree. Tanks tank, damage should be a secondary priority.

Yes, and?

Of course damage is second priority. However, most good tanks learned how to tank and do tanky-things forever ago, and frankly the mere act of holding aggro, positioning, and mitigating damage is extremely easy. So believe it or not, even aggressive tanks consider damage second priority, its just we complete our first priority very quickly and move on.

Sitting there dwelling on or struggling to meet that first priority isn't indicative of skill or being more in touch with tanking as a job, its just an inability or refusal to remove training wheels. Tenacity is the tread on those wheels.

[Felorr]

Yes, and?

Of course damage is second priority. However, most good tanks learned how to tank and do tanky-things forever ago, and frankly the mere act of holding aggro, positioning, and mitigating damage is extremely easy. So believe it or not, even aggressive tanks consider damage second priority, its just we complete our first priority very quickly and move on.

Sitting there dwelling on or struggling to meet that first priority isn't indicative of skill or being more in touch with tanking as a job, its just an inability or refusal to remove training wheels. Tenacity is the tread on those wheels.

Yes this. Positioning, Aggro, and managing defensive CDs for busters are obviously the top priority. And good tanks can do all of those things in their sleep. Even more so with things like Diversion and Shirk, makes aggro management a snoozefest. So what are you left to do? You start asking yourself "ok, how can I improve?"

[Elkanah]

snip

Shirk is by far my best friend in this game on tank. I love this skill on tank so much lol. Especially when tank swaps or something happens and need to have other tank take over a moment or two.