What happened to SB (story)?

[Lukha]

I agree with most of this, I've still got some story to go, but I'm having to force myself through it; the only part I've really enjoyed so far was the episode on the Azim Steppe, which was all to short.

I also find myself rather resenting Lyse and Alisaie for their parts in the story. Lyse I could live with even though her backstory is pretty stupid, but (as my FC mates have heard a dozen times by now) just about everything Alisaie does makes me hate her just a bit more. I LIKE diplomacy, thank you, and while I could have respected her for wanting to take a different approach, I feel like she spends a lot of her screen-time putting down her brother, usually when he's not even around, in a pathetically transparent attempt by the writers to both pump her up as a character and curry favor with the small but loud section of the playerbase who dislike Alphinaud and found all the politics in Heavensward frustrating.

The breaking point for me was her suddenly screaming about how Alphinaud TOTALLY can't swim, but SHE swims like a fish, out of nowhere, several scenes removed from her brother's last appearance. It was extremely weird and tonally inappropriate, and really just made her seem like the sort of nasty person who makes mean jokes about people who aren't around to defend themselves. If he'd actually been around and she'd been doing it to directly tease him, it would have felt...almost like a cute sibling rivalry thing, with maybe a few shades of her being self-conscious and childishly trying to make herself look better to the rest of the group by putting him down. STILL not the most likable personality trait, but an understandable one.

I guess the writers REALLY wanted to make us like her, and somehow it never occurred to them that having a character we barely know constantly take pot-shots at one we've spent the better part of four years of story becoming attached to might actually hurt their case?

And that's not even touching on how out of character Yugiri was, or how she was barely around when this should have been their chance to flesh her out and give her enough screen time to justify all the love she gets. Or how Yotsuyu was written as a cackling, irredeemable villain right up until you defeat her and unlock a sudden infodump about her tragic past? It's just bad writing, and should have either been uncovered piece by piece well before you go to Doma castle, to give you an actual feeling of conflict in going up against this person who legitimately deserves your pity despite her evil actions, or left out of the MSQ entirely and made fodder for a sidestory.

But really, all the problems come down to the story being rushed. I'm not saying that SE rushed production or anything; the STORY itself rushed by trying to cover too many things in one great glut. We rushed through liberating TWO entire nations in just ten levels worth of story, so we ended up glossing over or speeding through a lot of things that should have been major turning points in the story. Liberating Doma felt anticlimactic, and even losing Gosetsu, the only character in 'your party' with a personality, barely warranted a pause to mourn him, and then you literally ditch the victory celebration to rush back to Eorzea, like it hasn't been fine without you for the past few months the Doman campaign would realistically have to take, and won't keep long enough for you to take ONE NIGHT to actually enjoy having accomplished something.

4.0 should have ended with Doma's liberation, and Ala Mhigo should have been saved for 4.1+; the game would have been much better for it.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip.

I disagree with quite literally all of this. Alphinaud has quite literally been the single worst part of the entire FFXIV MSQ, from roughly level 5. Alisaie, on the other hand, has been an absolutely amazing character since her introduction at the Coils at level 50! I earnestly wish we have the chance to finally get rid of that Alphinaud dead weight, especially if we can say goodbye to him with an incredibly snippy "Good riddance". One of the highlights of this expansion was watching that dribble of a flat character finally stop being treated like some kind of godly twitch instead of the worthless pansy he is!

All IMHO of course.

I guess the writers REALLY wanted to make us like her, and somehow it never occurred to them that having a character we barely know constantly take pot-shots at one we've spent the better part of four years of story becoming attached to might actually hurt their case.

Alisaie's been around for four years as well. I take it you never did any endgame content back in 2.X did you? Alisaie was the star of that show, and it was mysteriously better despite Alphinaud being just a hanger on.

[Lukha]

Alisaie's been around for four years as well. I take it you never did any endgame content back in 2.X did you? Alisaie was the star of that show, and it was mysteriously better despite Alphinaud being just a hanger on.

Wrong. I've been playing since beta and did Coil as it was released, however that handful of quests doesn't come close to comparing to the time we've spent with Alphinaud, both before and after. Alisiae disappeared from level 15 to level 50, showed up for a single level 50 quest chain and then disappeared again until it was time to swoop in right before the finale of Heavensward and steal everyone's thunder. We barely know her because we've barely interacted with her up until that point, and she hasn't changed a bit from the brat who stormed off on her own at level 15 because all the political talk frustrated her.

On the other hand. her brother was there with us almost the entire way from level 1 to level 60, and actually spent that time growing and changing as a character. Like him or not, he is objectively a different person than he was way back at level 15, which by most metrics makes him the better character.

I will be the first to admit that I disliked him immensely all through ARR, right up until the climax of 2.55. As far as I was concerned, he needed a good spanking and I prayed that when the time came I'd get to be the one to administer it. I even had an absurd pet theory that he was going to turn out to be evil, based on the sketchy vibes I was picking up from the whole Crystal Braves build up! And then 2.55 happened and he got the spanking of a lifetime, just in time for him (along with the PC and Tataru) to start Heavensward at just about rock bottom, which gave him a solid foundation to rebuild himself into a more mature, confident character whose confidence was actually based in reality rather than the foolish assumptions that things would work out that led to the Crystal Brave debacle.


Ultimately, you're free to prefer whoever you want, but you really can't claim Alisaie is a better or better written character when she's got zero presence in the story outside of a single side story arc and 10-15ish MSQ quests out of the hundreds that it took to get from the start of 2.0 to the finale of 3.5.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Ultimately, you're free to prefer whoever you want, but you really can't claim Alisaie is a better or better written character when she's got zero presence in the story outside of a single side story arc and 10-15ish MSQ quests out of the hundreds that it took to get from the start of 2.0 to the finale of 3.5.

She is. Unlike Alphinaud, who's still the same twerp he's always been, Alisaie is in every way a more interesting and compelling character than the twit that stayed behind in Kugane, precisely because he's a completely useless and worthless character in the grand scheme of things. He hasn't done anything to grow or change. His presence on screen only serves to highlight how worthless he's been since ARR when literally everything we've done could've been done much faster if Alphinaud wasn't constantly going "B-But we mustn't, we must wait! We mustn't do anything just wait around!" Alphinaud has not changed. He's still the same worthless brat we ran into in ARR, and he will forever be the exact same brat we ran into constantly whining, whinging, and moaning. You're free to not like Alisaie, but you can't tell me that a character that isn't constantly wetting himself in fright is worse written then the biggest coward in the series.

[Lukha]

Snip.

So you're trolling, right? Because there's no way you actually believe any of that.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

So you're trolling, right? Because there's no way you actually believe any of that.

Ah, the classic "You don't agree with me and therefore must be trolling". Yes, I do believe Alphinaud is a cringy, whiny brat that I'd sooner leave permanently in the Waking Stones if I had the chance. There is absolutely nothing redeemable about his characterization.

Is it any wonder that the plot actually proceeded at an appreciable pace the second we left Alphinaud behind?

Like it or not, we are adventurers: A certain level of recklessness is part of the job description. Excessive caution is not.

[Paladinleeds]

So you're trolling, right? Because there's no way you actually believe any of that.

snip

I may not always see eye to eye with Thunda Cat, but she's right about this one. It is possible to have different beliefs in characters. I find Alisae's personality a better match to mine own. I'd also rather leave Alphinaud back at The Waking Sands. We're there to burn down Garleans aplenty. Let heroics and action do the talking, not in my opinion mindless political games.

[Daralii]

She is. Unlike Alphinaud, who's still the same twerp he's always been, Alisaie is in every way a more interesting and compelling character than the twit that stayed behind in Kugane, precisely because he's a completely useless and worthless character in the grand scheme of things. He hasn't done anything to grow or change. His presence on screen only serves to highlight how worthless he's been since ARR when literally everything we've done could've been done much faster if Alphinaud wasn't constantly going "B-But we mustn't, we must wait! We mustn't do anything just wait around!" Alphinaud has not changed. He's still the same worthless brat we ran into in ARR, and he will forever be the exact same brat we ran into constantly whining, whinging, and moaning. You're free to not like Alisaie, but you can't tell me that a character that isn't constantly wetting himself in fright is worse written then the biggest coward in the series.

Alphinaud is extremely cautious, especially since the last bold decision he made resulted in the near-deaths of the Sultana, the Scions, and Rauhban losing an arm. Alisaie is brash and reckless, for the point of creating contrast between them when they were so close to one another for most of 2.0. Alphinaud doesn't even suffer from the problems Minfillia did, when everything she contributed was off-camera and unrelated to fighting. He's right in the middle of things constantly, coming up with new carbuncles every patch cycle.

[Alleo]

I also find myself rather resenting Lyse and Alisaie for their parts in the story. Lyse I could live with even though her backstory is pretty stupid, but (as my FC mates have heard a dozen times by now) just about everything Alisaie does makes me hate her just a bit more. I LIKE diplomacy, thank you, and while I could have respected her for wanting to take a different approach, I feel like she spends a lot of her screen-time putting down her brother, usually when he's not even around, in a pathetically transparent attempt by the writers to both pump her up as a character and curry favor with the small but loud section of the playerbase who dislike Alphinaud and found all the politics in Heavensward frustrating.

Alisaie is one of my favorite characters but I agree that the way they portrayed her in SB really got on my nerves later. I have a sister myself so I know that there is a certain amount of teasing and stuff like that between siblings..but I also got the feeling that she was trying to get in a higher "position" than her brother with us..Its fine to tease him when he is there an can react, but its kinda a bit tactless to tease and put your own brother down when he is not even there..also sorry Alisaie but I went through a lot of stuff with Alphinaud and you doing some things better than him does not make it a better friendship with you. Also why did she not truly get called out for being completely reckless against the Ananta primal? If it was not for Alphinaud saving her and us having a sudden echo shield they would have all been tempered. Strange how she can sit back and watch how someone innocent shoot someone else, yet she needs to run straight at a primal? I still like her but I was also a bit happy to have her take a back seat in the last fight.

I also agree about Yugiri. For someone that is a ninja and was always quite calm, she surely acted out of character (imo) in the fight against Zenos. I can understand her reasoning especially after she saw whats happening to the villagers..but if it wasnt for plot armor she would have been death and maybe the villagers too. At the same time I dont really understand, why someone reckless like Lyse did not go with us, or why nobody else truly helped us until after we were defeated. I mean we are the WoL, but already lost against him once. If we die there, the Ascians will probably win, so why are you standing back and let us fight on our own?

@Kallera: Not only HWs story (and I love his character development) but he was also the one that came up with the plan to free Doma. (And Hien only made that small correction with flooding the castle) In that way he was way more important to the plot than someone as Lyse. (IMO)