Is Hydaelyn an alternate universe of Ivalice? (Patch 3.4 spoilers)

[LineageRazor]

Technically FFV is a fictitious tale in Final Fantasy XIV canon, so that is almost definitely not a reflection.

The fact that FFV is a fictional tale is FAR from proof that FFV is not a reflection. In fact, if anything, it makes it MORE likely that FFV is a reflection. Travel between reflections is possible, as we know; with the exception of Minfilia's journey, all currently known travel has been facilitated by Ascians (or made by Ascians themselves), but it DOES happen. Suppose one such traveler either visited or originated from the FFV reflection, and brought the tale of Exdeath back to the Source? It's just a story here, but was the actual truth on this other world.

No, the fact that FFV (and all the other numbered Final Fantasies, if we take the Triple Triad cards to be evidence of such stories) is a fictional tale on the world of the Source does not mean that it can't be real elsewhere. In fact we KNOW it is real elsewhere - in the world of FFV. The point of debate in this thread is, just where IS the world of FFV? Is it one of the reflections? Or is it another universe entirely?

That was the point of my post - the reason it WOULDN'T be one of the reflections is because that leaves SE far more storytelling freedom. If the reflections are all wholly owned by the universe of FFXIV, then the writers are free to do whatever they want with them. If the reflections are the other Final Fantasy games' worlds, then the writers would have to tread very carefully, for fear of pissing off long-term fans of the series (a group of folks pretty heavily represented among the playerbase of this game).

[Enkidoh]

The fact that FFV is a fictional tale is FAR from proof that FFV is not a reflection. In fact, if anything, it makes it MORE likely that FFV is a reflection. Travel between reflections is possible, as we know; with the exception of Minfilia's journey, all currently known travel has been facilitated by Ascians (or made by Ascians themselves), but it DOES happen. Suppose one such traveler either visited or originated from the FFV reflection, and brought the tale of Exdeath back to the Source? It's just a story here, but was the actual truth on this other world.

That would only be true if the game already did not all but state that the 'reflections' of Hydaelyn are actually just plain parallel versions of Hydaelyn itself, not other FF worlds (this was shown with the Warriors of Darkness who were stated as originating on the First reflection.. and they have FFXIV Jobs and AF/relic, are the FFXIV races (Midlander hyur, Sea Wolf roegadyn, Wildwood elezen, Plainsfolk lalafell and Seeker of the Sun miqo'te), and, here is the kicker, all possess the Echo, an ability that does not exist on any other FF world.

If the 'reflections' were all past FF worlds, being from the First reflection then by all rights the Warriors of Darkness should have all been ordinary humans in FFI armour (and there should have only been four not five), not FFXIV races in FFXIV gear. That pretty much shows each Reflection is merely an alternate Hydaelyn where things turned out very differently to the 'player's' Hydaelyn, they're parallel worlds not completely different planets (this also shows how the WoD were able to use Hydaelyn-abilities like teleportation or using linkpearls, that is something both the Reflection and Source Hydaelyn share.).

And that all but confirms what SE stated all along (and debunks completely the very point of this thread) - Hydaelyn and it's various 'reflections' are not any other FF world in a different time or dimension, each FF world is it's own unique world.

[LineageRazor]

*snip*

To continue to play devil's advocate (do bear in mind that I AGREE that the other worlds are not other final fantasy games' worlds - however, there is room enough in the lore for the devs to make the mind-boggling stupid decision to do so, if they chose, as the original poster hopes they would), even with the Warriors of Darkness there was evidence that there are some pretty significant differences between the Reflections and the Source. You mentioned that the jobs are FFXIV jobs - except they aren't. Similar, yes, but we have the Knight of Darkness, Devout of Darkness, and Magus of Darkness, all jobs that do not exist in FFXIV - and why should they? White and Black magic was developed in, what, the Fifth Astral Era? The Reflections all diverged before the First.

The question really amounts to just how much divergence can occur within the mere thousands of years since the First Astral Era? Could there have been enough to witness the emergence of a world like those that exist in other Final Fantasies? I'd say, yes, there could. Some would be a greater stretch than others (it would be REALLY rough to explain away the cosmological differences between XIV and, say, XIII, or even XI), so let's focus on the OP's pet world, XII.

Your bringing up race is a good point - but far from ironclad. Thanks to the Au Ra, we already know there can be races in-game that have not yet made an appearance, so it is entirely possible that Viera exist on Hydaelyn and simply haven't been designed as a player race (God knows there are enough folks on the forums that wish this were true). Nu Mou, Seeq, Bangaa, could simply be undiscovered races of Beastmen, and the world of Ivalice never developed the human/beastman drama that exists on the Source, allowing them all to coexist peacefully on Ivalice. Why are there no Miqo'te, Au Ra, Elezen, Lalafel, or Rogadyn in Ivalice? Perhaps they live on other continents, or maybe they even died off for some unknown reason.

Similarities in equipment can be written off as a gimmick for ease of production - and SHOULD, even if we don't buy into the Ivalice theory. There's simply no freaking way that two worlds that diverged ten thousand years ago should wind up with EXACTLY the same equipment. The Warriors of Darkness may have looked like they were wearing our stuff, but I think we can safely assume that is just a convenience, much like Yugiri's Miqo'te model in her early appearances.

And, after writing the above two paragraphs, I remembered something even more important: we have no idea what races the Warriors of Darkness actually were. They came here as souls, not as bodies, and inhabited bodies on this world, which would account for the similarities of race and equipment. If we want to assume that they somehow formed bodies on this world that matched those on their old, though, then the above two paragraphs still apply.

As for Echo - who's to say that Echo users don't exist in Ivalice? The ability was never relevant to the game, and so was never brought up.

Basically, if the writers want to shoot themselves in the foot by making one of the Reflections out to be the canonical world of Ivalice, they have plenty of room in the lore to do so. They won't, though, because, as you said, they said they won't, and it would be a terrible, terrible idea even if they were willing to entertain the notion.