I Love 4.0 Summoner. A lot.

[Tahldon]

We only complain because we want it to be better.

I agree with Schondetta here.

Most of us aren't complaining simply to be complaining about the job. I honestly wouldn't complain if SMN had the same pacing that it had pre-4.0 + the Bahamut pieces added on top + Pet AI QoL. There is a reason why a lot of players are in an outrage about this iteration of SMN when they had played the class and enjoyed it all the way up until this point.

I don't contest that you can't enjoy the job as it is, now, OP, but those of us bringing feedback forward aren't doing so out of sudden, wanton desire to bash the job. We've been playing it all this time. I, personally, enjoyed SMN pre-4.0 a lot as it had a very good pacing. Now it's just not enjoyable, and apparently the statement resonates as so with a lot of players who were otherwise very satisfied with it before the expac.

Not only that, but look at what people are saying in this very thread "4.0 SMN is a step in the right direction". I keep chuckling whenever I read such a thing because it's literally everyone saying "It's beginning to be what I like" or something along those lines while seemingly not realizing that this "step in the right direction" is it. This is what SMN is now, it's not stepping forward anymore than than it is. That step is the period at the end of the sentence for SMN.

Hence why voices are up in chorus for amendments.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Not only that, but look at what people are saying in this very thread "4.0 SMN is a step in the right direction". I keep chuckling whenever I read such a thing because it's literally everyone saying "It's beginning to be what I like" or something along those lines while seemingly not realizing that this "step in the right direction" is it. This is what SMN is now, it's not stepping forward anymore than than it is. That step is the period at the end of the sentence for SMN.

Since I am one of these people whos words provide you a good chuckle. I shall explain my words. Rather than have them used out of context or to fit some agenda, because for me there is no agenda.

The 4.0 changes to Summoner genuinely are a step in the right direction for me. The focus on poison based DoT's and Egi that barely resemble their Primal counterparts were always things I openly critiqued, despite my love for the job. Ever since 2.0 beta I wanted Summoner to have Summons that were a good representation of their Primal counterpart, and felt more like what I deem a proper Summon to be. Demi-Bahamut encapsulates all of that for me. He has become SMN's main source of damage. Shifting the focus away from the Warlock like poison DoT's. Summoner to me is all about what the job title states. Summoning. Now I am by no means saying I think SMN is in the ideal position I want it to be but as I said. It's a step in the right direction. For me.

[Shiroe]

besides all the gameplay and rotation issues smn has,...

when summoning demi-Bahamut, the "smn Akn Morn" could have been a bit more flashy and longer animated.., it's "visual reward" could have been better (when looking at other jobs or rdm)

[gweyowmi]

ME too!
I understand not liking it if youve been a long term player but i didnt even hit level 50 before stormblood dropped and i am a new player, oh well! just means less summoners out there! XD

<3my summoner

[YakushiHinata]

I am also enjoying the 4.0 SMN, it was a step in the right direction with Bahamut, there are for sure a lot less summoners around it seems, but I am sticking with this class til end of days.
I understand the complaints people have for it, and I have also felt it, punishing Aetherflow cooldown which reset the Bahamut aether leaving you 2 minutes behind to build up again if you die during a fight.

Is it too much to hope for different stances now? As instead of summon Demi-Bahamut, you get Demi-Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda etc, the concept of having a big summon pop out, do it's thing with flashy move then vanish feels alot more summoner than summoner did before.
It is probably too much to ask since Bahamut has always been that big ace to have, now we wait for more Egi glamour, please don't only add Obsidian and Diamond Carbuncle for 4.1 which I guess is the next ones in line because assets already there unless they want to keep them NPC unique.

[Brinzy]

The 4.0 changes to Summoner genuinely are a step in the right direction for me. The focus on poison based DoT's and Egi that barely resemble their Primal counterparts were always things I openly critiqued, despite my love for the job. Ever since 2.0 beta I wanted Summoner to have Summons that were a good representation of their Primal counterpart, and felt more like what I deem a proper Summon to be.

I wish they'd separate the classes then, because I want a DoT-based class. This summoning stuff makes for very non-compelling gameplay to me thanks to non-responsiveness, no actual support for summoning different Egis beyond a 1 min, non-SMN specific CD, and having to proc Bahamuts filler attack.

If they want to triple down on Bahamut-esque play, then they need to actually redesign the class, not simply gut abilities left and right and slap on an ability that makes you "feel" like a SMN for less than 20% of combat time.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I wish they'd separate the classes then, because I want a DoT-based class. This summoning stuff makes for very non-compelling gameplay to me thanks to non-responsiveness, no actual support for summoning different Egis beyond a 1 min, non-SMN specific CD, and having to proc Bahamuts filler attack.

If they want to triple down on Bahamut-esque play, then they need to actually redesign the class, not simply gut abilities left and right and slap on an ability that makes you "feel" like a SMN for less than 20% of combat time.

That's fair enough. However we are not "Summoning" Bio/Miasma. A poison based DoT, does not a Summoner make my friend.

Joking aside. I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself when I voice my opinion on why I enjoy the 4.0 Summoner. It is a perfectly valid opinion. As is your love for Bio/Miasma. Even if that does strike me as slightly bizarre on a job called Summoner. Just goes to show how perspective can differ from person to person. But as I say Summoner is not in the ideal place for me. All I'm saying is it was a step in the right direction for me. Of course let's not get it twisted, a step in the right direction, and being in an ideal place are two very different things.

It just seemed to me that this thread was supposed to be more of a SMN 4.0 appreciation thread. Rather than another attempt to drag the job through the mud. Don't get me wrong I agree with a bunch of the critique in terms of numbers, QoL, and Egi unresponsiveness/synergy. But in terms of look and visual identity. I don't see how Demi-Bahamut is anything but a quintessential Summon from a true FF title. That is why I say it was a step forward. Numbers and QoL can always be altered.

Also the ultimate fact of the matter is this is an MMO. So jobs will always be fluctuating on the power scale each expansion. SMN will be a top DPS again, and after that it will probably be a low DPS again, and so on. That's just the nature of the beast, and how job balancing between expansions/updates are. Just got to roll with the punches and try to get at least some kind of enjoyment out of it. Which is all I'm trying to do.

[Brinzy]

It just seemed to me that this thread was supposed to be more of a SMN 4.0 appreciation thread. Rather than another attempt to drag the job through the mud.

You aren't seeing Bard or Samurai or Red Mage appreciation threads being made as often as Summoner ones, because those classes are generally well received already. These threads are totally fine by me, but let's not kid ourselves; people generally only feel compelled to make them because of how poorly Summoner has been received. The OP admitted this.

And as for what we're talking about, I never really said that Bio/Miasma were defining of Summoner. I was mostly saying that I wanted a DoT caster, and when I started playing this game, this class was the one that did it. So I'm more than willing to let go of Summoner if they put that playstyle on something else. Otherwise, they're erasing something that's already existed in favor of an archetype that's largely incomplete.

[SoloWingMetatron]

You aren't seeing Bard or Samurai or Red Mage appreciation threads being made as often as Summoner ones, because those classes are generally well received already. These threads are totally fine by me, but let's not kid ourselves; people generally only feel compelled to make them because of how poorly Summoner has been received. The OP admitted this.

And as for what we're talking about, I never really said that Bio/Miasma were defining of Summoner. I was mostly saying that I wanted a DoT caster, and when I started playing this game, this class was the one that did it. So I'm more than willing to let go of Summoner if they put that playstyle on something else. Otherwise, they're erasing something that's already existed in favor of an archetype that's largely incomplete.

Yeah I can understand that. As I say I actually agree with a bunch of the critique about SMN. However there is also a lot of hyperbole being thrown about also. I just didn't want to focus on those negative aspects at this time, because all that can be said on that matter has been said. I just wanted to bring to light the possibility not everyone hates the changes. Like myself, who happens to love Demi-Bahamut, despite him needing some QoL changes.

In regards to your want for a DoT based caster. I understand where you're coming from now. That was my misunderstanding. I don't think SMN will ever lose it's DoT based skills. However Summoning is also the crux of the job. Hopefully SE can ultimately find a good balance of the two. Though this is why I feel the real problem lies with the linear game play. A skill tree system would fix the problem instantly, and also add depth and customization to game play.

[Tsumdere]

I think they missed the very obvious mark of what would have been good for the SMN identity (I didn't personally care, and now it's just a slap in the face) and keeping the unique playstyle. How cool would it have been if SMN got an upgraded trait to all DoTs that changed the wimpy animation to something like Ravana coming down and placing the DoT on the enemy? Hell, give each of the four DoTs an element (Fire/Ice/Wind/Earth) that each can build up seperately on each crit tick of a DoT. When a certain Element bar was full, you could enter a respective trance (Shiva-trance, Sephirot-trance) each with its own unique finisher. Make the pet auto attacks (because they are basically a DoT) build up to summoning Bahamut.

Boom. Combine that with improved pet AI and you have tons of summoning without neutering the playstyle of the only DoT DPS in the game.
Plus, this system would make for a good resource pool to keep track of with their fancy new job gauges.

It really feels they put no thought or consideration into SMN.

Mini-rant aside, I'm happy that people still find joy in it. I saw some familiar names from these SMN threads hitting the top parses of SMNs in Omega Savage! Great job OP! I commend your dedication.