Why wasn't Heavy Thrust merged into Impulse Drive?

[Khel]

The whole point of Heavy Thrust is to give you something necessary to do that's outside of your normal combos. If the damage boost effect was moved into Impulse Drive, you wouldn't even need to pay attention to the buff - it'd just always be up, simply by doing what you'd normally be doing anyway. Heavy Thrust is separate from your DPS combo specifically so that you have to pay attention to your buff, and work a Heavy Thrust into your rotation when that buff starts to run low.

Everyone uses it as part of the combo, you don't monitor the buff You use it prior to impulse drive when you are running your two combos and it is always up. Really does not add nothing but an extra button to the DRG "utility" combo.

Does not bother me, but I can see why they kept it. I don't think other melees have a buff or debuff on their first combo skill (I could be wrong). That leaves out Impulse Drive and of course Disembowel and Chaos already have their effects. Pushing it to the DPS combo, to like Vorpal would be bad for the class.

[LineageRazor]

They don't add complexity, its not hard to push a button every 15-20 seconds.

Don't confuse something that's second nature to you to mean that it doesn't add complexity. If it were really that easy, you wouldn't see so many terrible DRGs that rarely have the buff up. It's just one more example of the difference in world view between the good players and the bad. "That DRG must be lazy." "That DRG just doesn't care." "That DRG is looking for a carry." That's not it at all - that DRG WANTS to be good, but literally has trouble doing something that seems to you should be as easy as walking and chewing gum at the same time.

It's very much like the kind of view that makes me shake my head whenever someone says, "Man, this Savage Raid / Ex Trial is so easy ANYONE can do it." They seriously have no idea just how terrible the bulk of players in this game are. For ANY Savage Raid or Ex Trial, and I do mean ANY, you're going to have more folks that have trouble clearing it than are capable of clearing it. Folks with this world view simply don't understand how anyone could be so bad - and so they accuse them of being lazy, instead.

It's fine to think that mechanics like this are annoying or boring. It's fine to consider them to be an irritating chore that you need to perform to keep your DPS up to snuff. Just keep in mind that there are folks out there who are PROUD of the fact that they can manage to press this button every 15-20 seconds while still doing other DRG things - and a whole lot more of them than you might think. Quite likely a majority of DRGs, in fact, given how few people seem capable of clearing endgame content. For these folks Heavy Thrust helps make the job a lot more exciting.

Adding the damage boost to Impulse Drive would be pretty much equivalent to giving a DRG a Job Trait that increases damage by 15%. SE wants to make DRGs do SOMETHING to earn that 15%, even if it's something as simple as keeping an eye on the buff and mashing a single button.

[IhzaMhaskova]

For some reason they removed the DoTs from most of the classes because it was 'busywork' you had to maintain even though it had a role in AoE DPS that required judgement, yet kept all of the 'pure busywork' damage boost skills like Heavy Thrust and Hot Shot that have no function other than being a button you must press every X seconds, or lose a chunk of your DPS.

The mind boggles...

They need something to remove in 5.0!

[kattzkitti]

It's a way to add complexity to the job.

Complexity for the sake of complexity is never a good thing. Game design 101.

[Oscura]

Heavy thrust is a waste of a GCD and a hotbar slot. I can see why they kept it but it just seems to me like they really half-measured on the whole "cutting down on button bloat," thing.
IIRC, no other melee needs to reapply their damage buff outside of their combos, only Dragoon has to put the extra effort in. I hated HT in 2.x, hated it in 3.x, would hate it in 4.x if I didn't quit the class.

[FaileExperiment]

The whole point of Heavy Thrust is to give you something necessary to do that's outside of your normal combos. If the damage boost effect was moved into Impulse Drive, you wouldn't even need to pay attention to the buff - it'd just always be up, simply by doing what you'd normally be doing anyway. Heavy Thrust is separate from your DPS combo specifically so that you have to pay attention to your buff, and work a Heavy Thrust into your rotation when that buff starts to run low.

It's a way to add complexity to the job. A cheap way to add complexity, possibly, but complexity was its intention. It's another way to differentiate the good DRGs (who keep their dots and buffs up full time) from the mediocre ones (who let the buffs slip from time to time).

The same used to be true of Hot Shot, before it got it's 4.0 makeover.

Everything you say here is really good case for it simply being axed, or rolled into another skill like Shadow Fang/Dancing Edge.

[Berethos]

I wonder how many players could actually discern the difference between complexity for its own sake and complexity for the sake of depth (complexity for the sake of complexity gets thrown around an awful lot).

That being said, I do think Heavy Thrust needed combining with something else, but not because it's an element of complexity for complexity's sake (I don't think it is in the first place) but because it's purpose in the Dragoon rotation has been supplanted...really since HW launched.

Originally it was meant as the "thing you needed to keep going" as part of performing well as a Lancer/Dragoon. This function within the rotation exists with the Blood of the Dragon and the Dragon Eyes mechanic now. As a separate skill with a buff to keep running, it's obsolete, particularly compared to the overall more involved mechanics of BotD.

It also never served the kind of purpose/place in the rotation that Straight Shot for Bards does - it does provide the increased buff, but it also provides a proc-based function (the guaranteed crit) that would impact the Bard rotation, namely in that you suddenly had an "important ability" and had to figure out quickly if using it immediately was the best option or if there were more pressing concerns/things that had to be dealt with first. Essentially it already served the kind of dual purpose that makes it more than just a buff maintenance ability you press once every 15/30 seconds (which continues with SB's iteration and Refulgent Arrow sharing the proc, there's now an additional layer of consideration to be applied, so its even more entrenched in its dual purpose).

So either Heavy Thrust really should do something additional that adds an element of moment to moment consideration, or be baked into another existing ability...and given everything Dragoon already tracks, I'd say baking it in would serve the job better.

[Khalithar]

The maintenance buffs (heavy thrust, hot shot, and twin snakes) need to go. They're not interesting or fun. Then after that, let's dump the positionals while we're at it.

As soon as we get rid of those two things, my only real complaints about the game's combat system would be gone.

[Berethos]

The maintenance buffs (heavy thrust, hot shot, and twin snakes) need to go. They're not interesting or fun. Then after that, let's dump the positionals while we're at it.

As soon as we get rid of those two things, my only real complaints about the game's combat system would be gone.

Other than removing a personal annoyance for yourself, what would be the positive gain for the game itself found in removing positionals?

[IhzaMhaskova]

Other than removing a personal annoyance for yourself, what would be the positive gain for the game itself found in removing positionals?

He'd be able to just roll his face across the keyboard like 90% of dps do instead of using any effort!