Extreme Undercutting - Should it be a violation?

[Furious]

Because I can? Because I don't particularly care for crafting? Because I can?(Wait...I said that twice).

If your end-goal is "acquire those pets", then the most efficient route is to buy them. If you choose not to achieve the goal through that route, you are definitionally choosing a less efficient route (thus giving up the opportunity cost) because you find it more enjoyable to do so. Your choice does not remove the opportunity cost; you still pay it.

There is no activity in the game where there is no relative cost involved in partaking of it. It doesn't matter how much you tell yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter what you do, what you say, what you tell yourself; every action you take you do so in place of another action. Every single thing you do, you pay an opportunity cost. You (often unknowingly or subconsciously) make the decision that your enjoyment of that activity is worth the opportunity cost of not doing something else. It doesn't matter if you see the worth in the opposing choice or not. It doesn't matter if you think you don't value the outcome of those other actions.

Opportunity cost is as inescapable as time. It is literally how we define the difference between outcomes of actions vs other actions. It's like trying to say that seconds are unimportant to you because you don't need anymore time. The seconds keep on ticking regardless of whether or not you want them.

Now, all that said; move on with whatever it is you enjoy doing, stop trying to argue that it doesn't exist or can be avoided, and go about your day as if it doesn't. In the vast majority of cases, it has no tangeable impact on your experience of the game, despite it always being there. However, when it comes to a discussion of gathering vs. buying mats for crafting, stop trying to pretend that things you gather are free. They simply aren't.

[Furiea]

you guys keep this up and i'm going to create a thread called "Extreme overpricing - should it be a violation?" and also "extreme thread bumping - should it be a violation?"

[Furious]

you guys keep this up and i'm going to create a thread called "Extreme overpricing - should it be a violation?" and also "extreme thread bumping - should it be a violation?"

God forbid people discuss things on a discussion forum.

[Princess_Momoka]

If your end-goal is "acquire those pets", then the most efficient route is to buy them. If you choose not to achieve the goal through that route, you are definitionally choosing a less efficient route (thus giving up the opportunity cost) because you find it more enjoyable to do so. Your choice does not remove the opportunity cost; you still pay it.There is no activity in the game where there is no relative cost involved in partaking of it. It doesn't matter how much you tell yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter what you do, what you say, what you tell yourself; every action you take you do so in place of another action. Every single thing you do, you pay an opportunity cost. You (often unknowingly or subconsciously) make the decision that your enjoyment of that activity is worth the opportunity cost of not doing something else. It doesn't matter if you see the worth in the opposing choice or not. It doesn't matter if you think you don't value the outcome of those other actions.

Opportunity cost is as inescapable as time. It is literally how we define the difference between outcomes of actions vs other actions. It's like trying to say that seconds are unimportant to you because you don't need anymore time. The seconds keep on ticking regardless of whether or not you want them.

Now, all that said; move on with whatever it is you enjoy doing, stop trying to argue that it doesn't exist or can be avoided, and go about your day as if it doesn't. In the vast majority of cases, it has no tangeable impact on your experience of the game, despite it always being there. However, when it comes to a discussion of gathering vs. buying mats for crafting, stop trying to pretend that things you gather are free. They simply aren't.

I tried to explain that too.

[Paladinleeds]

you guys keep this up and i'm going to create a thread called "Extreme overpricing - should it be a violation?" and also "extreme thread bumping - should it be a violation?"

God forbid people discuss things on a discussion forum.

To add on to what Furious said...
Was the topic title bad: In the grand scheme of things, yes
Was the original post bad: See above.
Has it led to useful discussion: Absolutely. And clearly the mods agree because after several attempts to get this thread over time by means of reporting the original post, it is still unlocked.

[ArcanoJones]

Since there is no way to prove a persons intentions and why they are selling an item so cheaply...You cannot punish them for it. You can not prove they are trying to crash the market. Personally I think in WOW for example items are overvalued by a considerable margin. Everybody has so much money that nothing sells cheaply. For example if your a new player and trying to build up a crafting profession. Forget buying it. You better go mine or harvest it yourself. The markets are for rich players who don't mind paying exoribitant prices. The prices don't represent the goods. Low level leather or ore costs as much or more as high level stuff.

[Furiea]

To add on to what Furious said...
Was the topic title bad: In the grand scheme of things, yes
Was the original post bad: See above.
Has it led to useful discussion: Absolutely. And clearly the mods agree because after several attempts to get this thread over time by means of reporting the original post, it is still unlocked.

the current discussion is already off-topic from the original post. people should either start a new thread or simple lock this up for non-op related off-op-topic discussion.

one of the reason being... see the post above me and below.. people will come in, read the OP, and reply the OP... which at this point is no longer an issue.

mixed information in a thread is not a good practice for forum housekeeping.
they should "archive" off-topic/certain old threads like reddit.

[Maku]

To answer the title of this thread: No, it shouldn't. I do it all the time just to sell stuff fast because I don't really care about how much gil I make. Even if someone is trying to purposefully crash the market, it still shouldn't be a violation. If someone is clever enough and the general populous is stupid enough to let it happen, then why should SE regulate this? It is just someone playing the game how they want to play it.

[Kosmos992k]

I went back to see how this all started. Your posts are correct, however the comments are out of place to what Nixxe is saying, so at this point you are belittering them when you say stuff like "I think you're willfully mis-understanding my posts, and attacking; and I think you've shown your true colors."

I'm aware of how it started. I replied to a post that to me, seemed a very blunt and categorical criticism of how someone else plays, not an economics discussion. I replied without attacking and was promptly told my response was ridiculous. If you want to take someone to task start with the one initiating attacks.

[Claviusnex]

I was only trying to help Claviusnex understand what opportunity cost really means and was wondering if they consider the price of something when picking to gather. Like my example with the level 70 node, 35 node, where the 70 node sells for 200 each while the 35 node sells for 500 each. I wanted to know what he would do. If it was me, I would only gather from the 35 node, sell excess, then buy the 70 node stuff, this leads the the biggest gil gain you can have gathering in this situation.

I wanted to show there is no such thing as free, if you are doing A, you can't do B while doing A, so not doing B is costing you, regardless of what your view point is.

I fully understand opportunity cost. I don't treat a game as real life so it is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned when I'm in the game. In real life the game is free time so has no value and there is no reason from my perspective to try and give it value in the game.

If I am going to do some crafting I gather whatever material I need to make the item. If I cannot obtain the item myself I buy it. I don't care that I can buy something off the board and not have to gather as gathering is part of the game I like. Collecting minions, gear, running dungeons and housing are also things I like to do. I don't sit down and do a cost analysis on every thing I make or sell. I do keep a close enough track to not sell for a loss but my time isn't part of that consideration. As I said it has no cost because I would be doing the activity or something else I liked anyway. I also price items at what I think is a reasonable price. Sometimes that might be the market range and at others significantly below it. Getting top gill isn't important when the game provides enough in its various ways to support what I want to do.

Your argument can't do B while doing A is a bit of a stretch. It doesn't upset me that when I'm doing A I can't do B or if B becomes important it isn't a big deal to drop A. I play the game for the duration I want and then logoff. If I didn't do everything offered in the game I don't care it will be there tomorrow. I get the feeling many folks take this game too seriously and treat it as a surrogate for real life. For me if I ever get to that point then it is time to quit as I've already done all of it in RL so why do it again.