Unpopular opinion

[Alphras]

Ah yeah makes sense.

[bswpayton]

The hate on pali is real in this thread

[SyzzleSpark]

The hate on pali is real in this thread

Where? What hate? If by "hate" you mean a bunch of people saying "hey PLD is really good, WAR/DRK not so much, they probably need some buffs" then yeah I guess this is PLD hate for days up in here.

[bswpayton]

Where? What hate? If by "hate" you mean a bunch of people saying "hey PLD is really good, WAR/DRK not so much, they probably need some buffs" then yeah I guess this is PLD hate for days up in here.

damage is balanced, among the tanks, pali just has divine veil, intervention , and passage and people act like its just the most amazing utility kit of all time. Im personally just sick of jobs gettin nerfed and changed and threads like this with negative feedback will just get jobs people like nerfed.
Hence the first thing in last live letter was pretty much pali is to strong, what happen HS gets cut down 30 potency , its more so an issue with the playerbase than the game stop following trends and meta and play what you like stop worrying about fflogs and worry bout yourself. Thats the real problem more so than jobs not being balanced.

[Kalocin]

damage is balanced, among the tanks, pali just has divine veil, intervention , and passage and people act like its just the most amazing utility kit of all time. Im personally just sick of jobs gettin nerfed and changed and threads like this with negative feedback will just get jobs people like nerfed.

Square isn't known to do huge nerfs all the time like Blizzard does, likewise, people asking for balance is not wrong. How is going to affect Paladins if:

1) Dark Passenger is made not-useless, it's literally not worth using.
2) Shadow Wall is matched with sentinel or the CD is reduced as it currently makes little sense.
3) The Blackest Night at a minimum is boosted a second or two due to server ticks.
4) The Living Dead is made to be less janky as unlike Holmgang and Hallowed Ground we pretty much need a pocket White Mage for it. It's not very noticeable and you also have to die for it to even have an effect.
5) Any form of extra mitigation since the focus on TBN makes it harder to soak damage outside of tank busters.
6) If none of the above, can we not be the lowest dps? As we kind of feel squishy for how much Paladins have. That's not hating em, it's just pointing out the obvious.

[bswpayton]

Square isn't known to do huge nerfs all the time like Blizzard does, likewise, people asking for balance is not wrong. How is going to affect Paladins if:

1) Dark Passenger is made not-useless, it's literally not worth using.
.

I actually agree with you on everything you said , drk relies the most on the role system of the three tanks their defensive tool kit is def lacking and I know when I was leveling I wish I had TBN below level 70. Im more so against the argument that because pali has so much utility that it shouldnt deal decent damage, because at the end of the day thats what matters the most. They changed alot on warrior in 4.05 heard the feedback and I was hoping all this pali is to strong would stop but I guess not heres to wishful thinking.

[Falar]

Square isn't known to do huge nerfs all the time like Blizzard does, likewise, people asking for balance is not wrong. How is going to affect Paladins if:

1) Dark Passenger is made not-useless, it's literally not worth using.
2) Shadow Wall is matched with sentinel or the CD is reduced as it currently makes little sense.
3) The Blackest Night at a minimum is boosted a second or two due to server ticks.
4) The Living Dead is made to be less janky as unlike Holmgang and Hallowed Ground we pretty much need a pocket White Mage for it. It's not very noticeable and you also have to die for it to even have an effect.
5) Any form of extra mitigation since the focus on TBN makes it harder to soak damage outside of tank busters.
6) If none of the above, can we not be the lowest dps?

Which I am thankful for, because that is one of the reasons (also them trying WoWify all their other games) I am done with that developer, having been playing their games since the mid 90s.

Paladin was my first L50 class (and only in ARR) and though I switched to Dark Knight upon reaching Ishgard in HW it was the very next class I got to 60. After being used to ARR Paladin, Dark Knight felt amazing. However, as I would come to find out HW gave Paladin some sorely needed things to make it much better than 2.xx. After getting used to having Goring Blade and Royal Authority L50 sync content drove me nuts to the point of wondering how I ever suffered though it. I did find dungeons as PLD lacking as they had no spammable AoE skill, a distinct disadvantage compared to the other two tanks.

After they did the Shield Oath to 15% change I honestly didn't do much different damage in the fights as Paladin vs Dark Knight. I continued to Main Dark Knight as it had by far the best story (man, the Paladin stories were generic and boring IMO) and was still more fun for me to play but was excited to see the announcement that it was getting some very positive changes in SB. I assumed first and foremost a skill like Total Eclipse was coming as it was much needed but they really did another great job adding to Paladin overall just like HW did.

However, I don't understand why they couldn't just improve WAR and DRK as well. Sure, they needed less overall "new and shiny" things but it seems to me like they purposely set out to make both of those classes WORSE (WAR is just hearsay to me, I only have Marauder at 26) and I just don't understand that.

With Dark Knight they removed nearly all of our oGCDs via the role skills, nerfs, or outright removal. Gone is a signature move, Dark Dance, and the two skills that fed off parries. On the defensive side they took Shadowskin, Foresight, and Dark Dance. Sure, you can take Rampart and Anticipation, but Anticipation is not nearly as good as Dark Dance was and there is no foresight replacement, which would have been better than before with our higher defense values. In return we got a stoneskin that costs the same MP as Dark Arts.

When playing 4.0 PLD, I feel that I gave up almost nothing (I never used Awareness, how useful was protect/raise/stoneskin?) outside a better Convalescence. In return I got better potencies on everything, some new strong magic attacks, improved healing and even more party saving defensive moves.

When I play 4.0 DRK I feel I lost 1/2 my moves while 2 that are still left are a pale imitation of their former selves in exchange for a shield, ST attack (that is not as strong as its potency implies), and AoE attack.

I never thought PLD needed any nerfs, I was glad for the changes for 4.0 but now just want them to make Dark Knight great again.

[Conando]

No. Changes helped Warrior quite a bit, but drk is still in a really bad spot. Worst dps, worst mitigation, and only one utility move is bad. On the WAR side, no real utility sucks but the other changes at least made it easier to actually deal damage regardless of role. We'll have to see what the Shake It Off changes are.

[Derio]

DRK damage was fixed but it's mitigation was not and dark passenger is a useless skill atm that should be looked at for 4.1

[Tankstuff]

No. Changes helped Warrior quite a bit, but drk is still in a really bad spot. Worst dps, worst mitigation, and only one utility move is bad. On the WAR side, no real utility sucks but the other changes at least made it easier to actually deal damage regardless of role. We'll have to see what the Shake It Off changes are.

No. Savage has a lot of movement and phase changes that hurts war dps the most due to lower potency combos and big reliance on berserk/ir windows. Drk can MT all 4 bosses no problem due to dark mind, and have an easier time dpsing.