Extreme Undercutting - Should it be a violation?

[Avatre]

Then why did you level crafting somewhat and have max level Miner? Are you telling me you started the game and was like "Oh ill gather to get maps"? how did you know about them?

Friends? FC? People out in the world talking and asked a question? Take your pick.

[RubenSnizzle]

Only way to fix the market on every other server that isn't balmung/gilga, is to make it data-center crossed.

[Nixxe]

So is playing any game, they are intrinsically wastes of time because they are not productive activities in material terms.

On the flip side, they are not a waste of time in that they are productive in intangible terms. That is, you gain relaxation, enjoyment, and perhaps a modicum of social interaction through video games such as MMOs, which is not a waste of time. I really don't like it when people call things like this a waste of time, it's really a subjective judgment that you can only ever apply to your own time.

Playing a game is not a waste of time. Don't be ridiculous. The entire purpose of value generation, both in life and in game, is to procure positive experience either directly or indirectly. What the other person pitched was not predicated on fun, but as a response to the statement "Time is money," as though it was meant to be a suggestion made for the sake of efficiency, though it's inefficient for both XP and value generation.

[Kosmos992k]

Only way to fix the market on every other server that isn't balmung/gilga, is to make it data-center crossed.

Your 'fix' would break the entire thing. There really is nothing to fix, it's a pure supply and demand market, unfortunately there are players with inordinate amounts of gil who can manipulate prices by spending their gil - which is of course something that's totally unknown in reality....lol It's not broken, the only 'fix' required is for people to start understanding the simplest element of economics, supply and demand.

[Kosmos992k]

Playing a game is not a waste of time. Don't be ridiculous. The entire purpose of value generation, both in life and in game, is to procure positive experience either directly or indirectly.

Did you read my post?

I said that in *material terms* playing video games (or any form of game) is intrinsically a waste of time. That's in material terms. Playing a game produces nothing tangible.

On the other hand, as I posted, playing video games are productive in terms of intangibles because we play video games for relaxation, enjoyment, social interaction (in MMOs), satisfaction or even some sense of achievement in doing something that few players are capable of. So in intangible terms, which are entirely subjective, it is productive, otherwise no one would play a game.

The point of my reply was that the poster I was replying to was calling the play of another a waste of time. I was pointing out that while you can make that claim in material terms; there are far more ways, intangible ways, in which games are productive. I don't think you really understood my post, otherwise you would not be jumping on my post and attacking me so readily.

[Princess_Momoka]

Only way to fix the market on every other server that isn't balmung/gilga, is to make it data-center crossed.

Balmung still has problems, and it comes from with how the game is designed. It is not built to have a healthy economy in mind, 1.0 did this better in the view people needed and wanted to trade more, communicating and having other players repair other's gear for respectable reasons to do so. The problem is this, for the battle content, too much is "free" and hand me items. People rather farm hours on end for a drop vs doing 10-30 mins of crafting/gathering and selling it for the gil equivalent for the same item (or same ilevel) Meaning crafting to make battle gear is a VERY small demand. Even on balmung most of your money comes from selling leve items, selling gather gear, then comes selling crafter gear (since the first 2 can be done with those who do not craft, thus a higher demand for those 2) For the most part the leve item turn ins and gather gear sell for MUCH MORE then items that are purely used for battle/leveling up and crafter gear (since crafters can and do make their own crafter gear for most part)

Then you have to add in the factor gil has little point in this game to motivate crafting, it is not uncommon to see solo sellers of an item even on balmung. in 3.4 where the 250 gear was 1-2 M for a long time, it was 1 -3 people per item. In 4.05 crafted gear, stuff sold for every little because 320 gear was out for a while (weapons and the right side) and delta normal to have hands, head, feet covered. So the only thing that was in somewhat demand was legs/body and even those dropped in price very quickly. Oh and glam gear is somewhere in the mix, like when SB first came out, the mats for the RDM moogle sword/SAM skyrocketed and stay high for a bit.

If they do cross servers, the spam undercutting prob just be worse due to having more crafters (that are willing to make things) with the same little demand.

[Nixxe]

Did you read my post?.

I said that in *material terms* playing video games (or any form of game) is intrinsically a waste of time. That's in material terms. Playing a game produces nothing tangible.

On the other hand, as I posted, playing video games are productive in terms of intangibles because we play video games for relaxation, enjoyment, social interaction (in MMOs), satisfaction or even some sense of achievement in doing something that few players are capable of. So in intangible terms, which are entirely subjective, it is productive, otherwise no one would play a game.

The point of my reply was that the poster I was replying to was calling the play of another a waste of time. I was pointing out that while you can make that claim in material terms; there are far more ways, intangible ways, in which games are productive. I don't think you really understood my post, otherwise you would not be jumping on my post and attacking me so readily.

It was a dumb post using a false distinction to try to lecture me on something entirely remedial because you assumed I was telling someone else not to have fun

[Kosmos992k]

It was a dumb post using a false distinction to try to lecture me on something entirely remedial because you assumed I was telling someone else not to have fun

Excuse me?You jumped on my post and called it ridiculous without apparently reading it, and now again, you're back in attack mode, presumably because you can't bring yourself to apologize for jumping to a conclusion. How is there a false distinction when you compare productivity in material terms vs intangibles? That's a very applicable comparison to make and gets at the entire value of play.

As for me assuming you were telling someone else not to have fun, what you posted, that I replied to was this;

Both parts of that are a terrible waste of time.

It seems that you are directly telling another player that their course of play was a waste of time (and by implication not fun), or am I missing something? I replied that in material terms you could say that but in terms of intangible and subjective things such as enjoyment and relaxation, games are productive.

I think you're willfully mis-understanding my posts, and attacking; and I think you've shown your true colors.

[Nixxe]

Excuse me?You jumped on my post and called it ridiculous without apparently reading it, and now again, you're back in attack mode, presumably because you can't bring yourself to apologize for jumping to a conclusion. How is there a false distinction when you compare productivity in material terms vs intangibles? That's a very applicable comparison to make and gets at the entire value of play.

As for me assuming you were telling someone else not to have fun, what you posted, that I replied to was this;


It seems that you are directly telling another player that their course of play was a waste of time (and by implication not fun), or am I missing something? I replied that in material terms you could say that but in terms of intangible and subjective things such as enjoyment and relaxation, games are productive.

I think you're willfully mis-understanding my posts, and attacking; and I think you've shown your true colors.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

I'm not going to waste more time on this asinine tripe.

[Princess_Momoka]

Excuse me?You jumped on my post and called it ridiculous without apparently reading it, and now again, you're back in attack mode, presumably because you can't bring yourself to apologize for jumping to aconclusion. How is there a false distinction when you compare productivity in material terms vs intangibles? That's a very applicable comparison to make and gets at the entire value of play.

As for me assuming you were telling someone else not to have fun, what you posted, that I replied to was this;


It seems that you are directly telling another player that their course of play was a waste of time (and by implication not fun), or am I missing something? I replied that in material terms you could say that but in terms of intangible and subjective things such as enjoyment and relaxation, games are productive.

I think you're willfully mis-understanding my posts, and attacking; and I think you've shown your true colors.

I went back to see how this all started. Your posts are correct, however the comments are out of place to what Nixxe is saying, so at this point you are belittering them when you say stuff like "I think you're willfully mis-understanding my posts, and attacking; and I think you've shown your true colors."

let me remind you how it started:

You say that "they're farming the mats themselves" and then that "they don't understand that farmed items were not free"...This is illogical.

Farming materials themselves does, indeed, make materials free. You don't spend any gil on that. You can then proceed to sell those materials and turn your "time investment" into money directly, or you can use them to craft something and then sell that.

In real life, large companies do indeed start producing their own stuff for sale. Look at any large shop brand. They have their own brands, because every step between harvesting resources and selling the finished product that you do yourself (on a large scale), the lower the costs. And the lower the costs, the more you can undercut competition that buys equivalent products for sale from others, thus being more attractive to the consumers without actually losing the profit margin. In a game it's just so extreme since there is literally no cost associated with your own gathering-resources and crafting portions at all (other than your time, of course).

Time is money.

Level a DPS through roulettes only, and farm while waiting for queue to pop. Problem solved.

Both parts of that are a terrible waste of time.

This is purely an economical argument by Nixxe and what is "fun" or not is out of place in it. Nixxe and Kosmos both have valid, correct statements, but Kosmos' statements does not fit with what nixxie was saying. You did ask what was being missed, I hope this helps. (Also kikix12, your comparison is not fitting and way off base, if you need me to explain why that is and Nixxe's point I will be happy to, but I do not think people wanna hear it so...)