After years of playing Summoner, I'm shelving the job and here's why.

[Angry_Evil]

Summoner -has- the potential to deal more damage than Red Mages, Black Mages, etc, but the effort involved for many simply isn't worth the return, especially if you're fighting against mechanics that cause the very intricate timer-balance you're working for to overlap or be interrupted in any way.

I don't see where this is coming from. Show me 4k+ smn dummy parses over 10minutes... BLM can do like 4.6k+

We need to be clear here. I think Summoner needs help as much as anyone else, but make sure the information is correct. Spreading the "Summoner does no damage' argument is wrong, plain and simple. They are -capable- of some of the highest, but rarely are allowed to reach it. "Doing no damage" feedback only leads to potency bonuses, which doesn't help the core problem at all.

Nobody said "summoner does no damage"
I am factually correct tho... And your "they are capable of the highest" is actually wrong. Effort, encounter etc has nothing to do with that...

Yes, the encounters matter in determining a class's "FFLOGs dps". Being capable and being allowed to do the damage your class has the potential to is the problem.

Wanted to add about that. Unlike RDM and BLM smn can't really do consistent DPS over long time like 4.6k BLM dummy 10min parses cause of simple reason - we don't have enough mp for r3 spam. Yeah r3 is weaker now but it's still dps increase. On the other hand in actual encounters SMN can show himself better than on the dummy cause of planing, moving, mechanics etc and actually that always was the case. But now smn is much more clunky and boring. And this HORRIBLE feeling that DWT is dps loss... ugh it should not be there >_> should not be like that at all...
Anyway there is no encounter or no encounter(dummy) situation where 4.0 SMN can show "highest" dps except probably SSS dummy but even then other classes probably do more...(and mb actually some aoe pulls with bahamut and aetherflwo ready lol). There's no mystical "potential" and no mystical "encounter" that won't allow SMN to realize this potential...

[Gallus]

I reported them for there rude posts

Oh god really?
You didn't report me because I was rude you reported me because I disagreed with many of you.
But really, whatever floats your boat.

[OriWhitedeer]

OP -- Ugh I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. Same thing happened to me in WoW with my preferred class, one I'd played for close to a decade in raid comps. I think the reasons you've listed are both well thought out as well as emotional which shows me that you're grieving not grief-ing. I hope that the developers can turn it around in time before you are forced to shelf it for good. *hugs*

[Koyuki38]

Hey, did someone break the v4s dummy ?
With ilvl 317 or 318 i wasn't able to do more than 5%

I used crit Dh food with crit Dh gear/mat, but not potion

[Kalocin]

I moved my DPS main from Summoner to Ninja this expansion because of the changes. One of the biggest appeals to me originally was the DoT management, as well as flashing your DoTs with buffs and contagion to get the most out of it. If I wanted to play a burst class I would have rolled black mage to begin with so I don't understand what they're trying to do with the job. If they want to make the job more about the summons well... They probably should make them more responsive lol.

[NovaBismarck]

The changes have not been rewarding, that's just the best way to put it. There are many ways they can work on altering the class to make it better, I hope they are thinking it over. Individually dotting and ruin spam is boring. I get the idea behind wanting to change the flow, and I do support that but in doing so it's got to keep some sort of clarity. I figure at best case we'll get a bandaid patch for the bleeding, but overall the class has a ways to go.

All I can say, is I'm glad we got RDM when Stormblood released, because it is fun and rewarding and much less tedious and clunky than smn now feels. I'm a fan of SE, they put a lot of work into the game, but I'm still heartbroken over the new feel of smn.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

Show your 4k parses if it's so easy...
It's also not really more complex but more annoying.


There's no samurai quality levels of damage for summoners...

It's not 4k but think I prove my point here.

What bothers me the most about all of these SMN complain threads is when people make false blanket statements like this guy, and then people start parroting it and all of a sudden the class is the worst in the game.

[Kabooa]

I don't see where this is coming from. Show me 4k+ smn dummy parses over 10minutes... BLM can do like 4.6k+

First off, this '10 minute parse' fix you're on is a weighted requirement. Summoner will obviously lose here to Black Mage because resources are an issue for the Summoner (Clarity: Because they need to use Ruin 3 liberally. Ruin 1 is a handicap). I might as well ask you to provide a 4.6k 3 minute Black Mage parse but they have to move 30% of the encounter.

Secondly, my mistake. Not 'Samurai quality' damage, but it is definitely not 'sub-par' (Which is what started this whole back and forth from the person I quoted). Every source I can view using FFlogs shows Summoners not only well within range of a majority of the classes, but even coming ahead in a few cases. They are most certainly -on par- and the outliers are, surprise, Samurai and Red Mage.

[Fyce]

It's not 4k but think I prove my point here.

What bothers me the most about all of these SMN complain threads is when people make false blanket statements like this guy, and then people start parroting it and all of a sudden the class is the worst in the game.

So, with a 80% perf, you deal 1.75m to the boss. Sure, that's not 90%+ or even orange rating, but it shows that you try.
And then, you have a SAM with a bad 35% perf, who did 1.71m damage. Only 77 DPS lower than you. The amount of effort you have to put to be at 80% perf and only get just a bit higher than a SAM who's not even trying is baffling. You could argue that "SAM is OP" or whatever, but the disparity is so big that it wouldn't make your point completly.

For the 80th percentile on Susano, SMN is just above BRD (and MCH, but we don't talk about them, you can already hear them crying from there). All of the other DPS jobs are above. Even DRG. Yes, even DRG (albeit close). And above DRG, you have BLM, who put SMN down with a 100 DPS difference. Then it continues to rise. And this data is mostly two weeks old. So that was before some job's buffs from 4.05.

You are definitly in the minority.

[HappyHubris]

My biggest problem with 4.0 summoner is that it's just not fun. Instead of a dynamic playstyle I'm checking boxes like a low-level clerk and building up slowly to a climax that feels underwhelming.