1 account buying 14 houses in 1 ward.

[MaikoRaines]

But let's be honest, I think we can all agree the game was definitely not designed for one person to have multiple house. It if was, we wouldn't be limited to a house per character to begin with but instead would have systems in place that actively allow for the purchase of multiple houses, at least no restrictions in place. They actively put designs in meant to prevent you from buying multiple houses, incomplete as they are. This should tell people one part of the intended design, the other being just being proper manners, ethics.

Well, if we're being honest here... some idiots who have been actively defending these house hoarders would disagree that ethics aren't a factor here and that the system is "working as intended" - I think it's fair to say the majority of us agree that one person does not need 20+ houses. If that's the case, one character could snag them up easily. Otherwise, why else would you need to create an alt and transfer money to it to purchase the house? Not QUITE working as intended due to the developers oversight. But sure. Working as programmed. Lets go with that as it gives hoarders a pass.

Of course the same people would say "Well if it's just a video game then why complain about not having a house if it's just that?"

Well, if it's just a video game, what's the big deal with letting some of those hoarded houses go? Again, you know, because it's just a video game. I'll just sit back and watch this unfold. I doubt the developers are going to keep quiet about this much longer.

[Krotoan]

Well, if we're being honest here...

working within intended mechanics is quite separate from being a considerate player. However, what most of us are debating is whether or not the players who DID "horde" should lose what they acquired through SE action.
I say no. It's not their fault the devs didn't consider that people could do this. They need to come up with a solution that allows people to have housing, but doesn't take away from those who spent their time and effort building up what they have.
I don't think people who have multiple houses are being very considerate of others, but I don't think they are required to and don't think they should be punished via drastic account manipulation for that.
nobody NEEDS 20 houses.You don't NEED a house. They are nice to have and deepen the experience, I enjoy the heck out of mine but I worked hard for it ( checking housing wards everyday to see if plots were available through auto destruction and saving GIL to buy them when they showed up at full price) . Leveling all your alts to house level isn't nothing, it took effort, and the houses weren't free. They all represent lots of actual hours put into this game, paid for just like the rest of us. The fact that these people put effort into this particular goal means, to me, that they earned what they have and taking it away because some people think it's "unfair" is not right.

[Venjamin]

Snip

Oh no, you're not wrong about that. I just meant mechanically, the '1 per character' is working as it's supposed to, rather than just the housing itself. Housing is broken, 100%.

Snip

I think it's funny that some idiots are defending the whiners who refused to transfer until it was free and THEN started whining about housing. You can think it's fair to say, and you'd likely be wrong. Your random aspersions to numbers of people who "agree that one person..." etc? Yeah, that's pulled out of a place that's best not discussed in polite company. The reason you would need to create an alt is so you have to actually put effort into getting the houses. You know, since a level 1 character can't just buy a house, you have to hit a level cap to do it. So that way, people can't JUST transfer money to a level 1 account and pounce on housing for flipping and the like.

Not an oversight, IMO.

I used 'just a video game' as a counter to the point of it just being a video game, and how people shouldn't take it seriously. The big deal is that you're asking people to give up a lot of time and effort that was put into acquisition. You're literally asking to take time from these people for no cost to you. It is just a video game, which means whatever we deem as important to ourselves is what's true. They found it important to get that many houses, they put in the effort when others refused to for whatever reason, so they get to keep those houses until SE changes the rules.

I still fully expect SE to do nothing about the system - they haven't for years now with house flipping, etc. My guess is they will let it go for a while, because as soon as 4.1 hits and the Kugane housing is released, all the people whining about it now will have housing, and then goes the rounds of "got mine lol." People only care when it inconveniences them.

[MaikoRaines]

Blah Blah Blah

You talk a lot out of your ass for someone who apparently also has issues reading things, or at the very most, likes to assume. Since you like to name call people at the end of some of your arguments (Bye Felicia? Sick meme's bro) I guess I'm not finished this discussion with you.

Lets clarify some things.

I never once said or implied that the 28+ house hoarders should be punished in any sense. Not even the clowns who buy them up to sell them privately for 1000% mark up or etc. What I do support is full intervention from S-E and full reimbursement to those players who have multiple housing plots on the same account. Do you think that S-E is going to allow two people to hog up an entire housing ward/data center because of that sense of entitlement those two individuals feel? You'd be delusional to think S-E is going to give them a pat on the bum, say "good job! All your hard work paid off! Have a unique title because you're special!" and ignore that two people are using up an entire resource? Since S-E were the ones who said that housing wards take up an immense amount of resources.

You also assume that some of us (or assume me anyways) do not have houses. I have a mansion that I share with my FC mates. I don't need a house. I've been fighting this fight for a long time now for fairness of other players and FCs who want to benefit from housing. People like you downplay other people that state "housing isn't a NEED" which in itself is a pretty petty and scummy thing to do.

Just a game eh? That's awesome, give up half of your plots then to FCs who want one. Oh you won't because Paissa houses are ugly? Oh ok. (Sadfacepuppyeyes)

I say those people who hoard them should hold onto them until S-E does finally intervene. I also support 1 personal and one FC house per per world character maximum. You have a bunch of characters on the same server, choose the best one to have the houses. Done. Want more houses? Buy more accounts since you like to dual box.

The housing situation has been ignored for far too long and I would like to believe with all the traction this subject has been getting as of late, it'll be a matter of time before Square-Enix gets off their butts and address this as they should. I would like to predict that they're going to address Kugane housing before it drops. I doubt it's a simple matter of just dropping twelve wards and telling people to go to town.

[Venjamin]

Snip

I mean, I could have said 'Bye Maiko' but it wouldn't have had the same dismissive tone as you were trying to give to me, so. Whatevs. I wouldn't really call that 'name calling,' but hey, whatever.

The implication that they should have their houses removed from them = punishment. Unless SE can suddenly give vouchers for the hours of life spent doing what they did, a gil compensation isn't going to cut it. It's hilarious that you use the phrase 'entitlement.' They are entitled to what they worked for, nothing more, nothing less. They are as entitled to those plots as someone is entitled to the mount they unlocked after running x runs of whatever-the-hell to get said mount. I never said SE should reward them. Just leave them alone. Those people used a resource when no one else was. The kicker here is that housing took up those resources regardless of when they were owned or not - so these two people buying up a ward actually did SE a favor - at least the ward was in use, rather than taking up server space for nothing.

I don't assume anything about you. When I say "you" with regards to house ownership or anything else, it's general 'you.' After all, you're on Excalibur ( according to your profile here ) which means you don't have a dog in the fight on Mateus at all.

Again, the 'just a game' applies one way. Because it's just a game, that means it's not a need. It's not a need for them, either, but they earned it, so they can choose to do with it what they please. I personally support instanced housing, because if it -is- a need, then everyone should have access to it, otherwise people who have one are just 'depriving a resource' from all the people that don't have one, right? It's funny - I don't have a house at all, and I'm fully in support of the people who buy as many as they want / can.

I'd love to see the housing situation improve, but not at the expense of players who put in a lot of time and effort to get what they have. Though honestly, with SE's track record on this issue, I would be really surprised if they -didn't- just drop the Kugane wards and tell everyone to go to town.

[MaikoRaines]

After all, you're on Excalibur ( according to your profile here ) which means you don't have a dog in the fight on Mateus at all.

Mateus? No. The entire game? Oh you bet I do. Except it's not so much a dog as it's a rabid wolf chalk full of rabies. You imply this is a Mateus problem. Excalibur is currently dealing with the same issues with house hoarders except two of them are botters and one of them is a confirmed gil seller. Despite showing evidence, video etc to S-E, nothing has been done to this person or the farm botter for that matter. Hyperion was also no different either and I was in that server since Beta. It only got bad when two or three groups decided they were housing barons and wanted to turn a profit on them.

This isn't just a Mateus problem. This is a game-wide problem.

Comparing mounts to plots is a really bad example. Mounts are an unlimited supply. Houses, not so much. You can at least farm mounts with proper groups and time even with low drop rates. You also don't need an alt to circumvent a limitation to getting a mount either, so again your point is a really bad comparison. There's also no drop rates on housing either.

Again, them "earning" those houses in a ward that's barely been up for a year is a stretch. They earned the cash for them. They chose to use that cash to make alts and buy plots with them. Sure, won't argue that tenacity but at some point this negative attention was bound to happen and if they expected no feedback from other Mateus players new and old then they're daft for it. Even more daft for having an interview with a known internet magazine and saying the things they did. As I said, it'll be a matter of time (a long time maybe) before an audit is done and S-E goes "Yeah... two subs owing 28 houses on a data center. That's gotta get fixed" - I'm hoping the extended delay of the Kugane plots from 2 weeks after launch to estimated time of 4.1 was hopefully for a strategy to be in place to deal with their own blunders and to not repeat the same mistake.

Anyone who also argues that you "don't NEED a house" can also suck a fat juicy lemon. It's a function placed for everybody to enjoy - you don't get to downplay others who want a house while defending those who have all the houses because they have fat stacks and unlimited free time on their hands.

[Venjamin]

Snip

I'm not about the life of hoarding houses to flip. That's against TOS, and so I'm against it. If you look at what I've been arguing about, it's been specific to the Mateus two who are often cited as the biggest problems in this, when they aren't.

The mounts / plots is not a direct comparison. My comparison is specific to time spent, because that's the thing people tend to forget. It's not just the gil spent, it's the time invested in it. Like I said, I'm 100% behind finding a fix, I just don't think that the two Mateus players should be foisted on pikes to get there. ( Technically if you want more than one of a specific kind of mount, you would need an alt, but that's semantic. ) The comparison was less the item comparison, and more the effort part, because people say "make them give up the plots, but compensate them" as though gil would be an adequate compensation for a year's time.

They earned the cash, and they leveled the alts to get them. The old, native Mateus players never had an issue with it, and the new ones only had a problem because... well, frankly, they got screwed by the rush. The old Mateus players knew there was still hundreds of plots open when the other two went to get their ward. I have no sympathy for the new Mateus players who took advantage of a free service and then were sad because they didn't get a house on top of it.

I didn't realize the Kotaku thing was actually an interview - I read it, and I thought Kotaku was just quoting things from their tumblr response. They said that stuff on tumblr because at that point, it'd been a source of constant harassment. People snap eventually, and if all they did was say some mean stuff, then oh well.

The argument of not needing a house, again, is specific to gameplay. I don't have a house, and I can do pretty much anything I want in game. I say the need isn't there because it isn't. I also say that the two don't -need- their 28 houses, but they have them nonetheless, and it's up to them what to do with them ( until SE does something about it. )

[Kogekigami]

The mounts / plots is not a direct comparison. My comparison is specific to time spent, because that's the thing people tend to forget. It's not just the gil spent, it's the time invested in it. Like I said, I'm 100% behind finding a fix, I just don't think thatthe two Mateus players should be foisted on pikes to get there. ( Technically if you want more than one of a specific kind of mount, you would need an alt, but that's semantic. ) The comparison was less the item comparison, and more the effort part, because people say "make them give up the plots, but compensate them" as though gil would be an adequate compensation for a year's time.

The same arguement can be given to those who lose there house due to automatic plot release. people lose there plot for not entering for a certain number of days. I bet half there plots arn't in use and only get entered to stop the auto. So how come there 'precious memories' get priority over people who maybe lost there house due to not being able to afford to play for two months or real life stopping them. What prioritizes there memories over the ones fc could be made making better use out of that land.

They earned the cash, and they leveled the alts to get them. The old, native Mateus players never had an issue with it, and the new ones only had a problem because... well, frankly, they got screwed by the rush. The old Mateus players knew there was still hundreds of plots open when the other two went to get their ward. I have no sympathy for the new Mateus players who took advantage of a free service and then were sad because they didn't get a house on top of it.

So people who used the free transfer to move from possible friends to help with the population on overcrowded servers don't deserve housing while 2 people. 2 PEOPLE get to hoard an entire ward and won't even consider giving up plots. sorry i don't get you logical taught. I would be more sympathetic to them if they actually showed some consideration to giving up land to people who have moved over or joined the server. cause that something that would of happened be it a free transfer or people joining to play with friend with the expansion.

lets move it away from housing in a degree. There is limited drinks in a party. Me and one other person grab all of them and don't share. You don't need the drink and I have been at this party as long as you have. so by your logic it's fair... no I'm an asshole hoarding all the drinks selfishly.


These two are being selfish and while I know SE won't step in they should consider giving up plots or face being demonized by the playerbase. If your going to be a selfish asshole prepared to be treated like one.