Confusion: Archer to Bard? Where is the Ranger Job?

[Lavani]

Cool, they killed my favorite type of class GG.

You don't have to be a Bard in all parties. It's simply an add on to Archer that gives you some new skills and I think it prevents you from using certain ones. You don't HAVE to be them in a party, it just gives you a certain job to do outside of Archer.

Just speculation.

So why nerf their damage so much?

[Anonymoose]

Cool, they killed my favorite type of class GG.

It's likely that neither Archer nor Bard would have fared well in XIV alone. - However, since I'm not the type of person to make a claim and not back it up, a bit of a history lesson and update on MMO building.

Ranged DPS is hard to fit into modern MMO mechanics, where classes have more responsibilities than they used to. In early MMOs, especially over dial-up, battle was basic, laggy, and slow - every class's job was simple. It had to be. Either take damage, do damage, make people take less or do more damage, or heal people who are taking damage. Today, that's not the case. Every job has more responsibilities. Hate rotations, skillchains, snap judgment on single-target heals, timing on "support" abilities - but ranged DPS remains largely unaltered. Stand back, hit hard, don't get yourself killed. While every other job gets more complex, ranged DPS still just stands off to the side and tries to not get hate. This can't continue to be the case; it's not fair, it's not balanced, and it throws the responsibility scale way off.

This is related to, but the flip-side of, the problem that plagues non-damage support classes such as Bard. Jobs that DPS but have support abilities (crowd control, hate management, acute cures, etc.) fare better now than ever - we've brought in the mechanics of split-second timing, positioning, etc. However, non-damage support faces problems from two directions: One, like Archer, it's hard to expand its responsibilities without expanding its capabilities, non-damage support classes still just buff and run (sometimes pulling, but in XIV there really isn't much "pulling"). In order to remain relevant, these classes have to take part in battle to a more complex degree.

Most importantly, in FFXIV, where every class should be able to hold its own solo; at the very least, either the starter class, or the job it evolves into, need to be combat capable. Support-to-Support class-to-job evolution would leave the player helpless to do anything alone.

The solution here, as far as SE is concerned, was to combine the responsibilities of these two jobs, ensuring their continued relevance in the modern MMO age. I think it's a brilliant idea; the job sounds fast-paced, multi-faceted, fun as hell, and their concept art is BEYOND GORGEOUS.

I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Archers in this game, even now, rush into battle, do damage willynilly until the dot goes red, and then just stand there until it goes away. When someone runs off without paying attention and gets aggro? it's usually an archer. When someone's not paying attention and takes hate? It's usually an archer. A little more responsibility, ironically, isn't going to get them (or me) killed.

[Claire_Pendragon]

stuff

Agreed.
Plus in MMOs like WoW, the same is said for Hunter.
*Insert other MMO*
I hate how little responsibility DDs have in most MMOs.
Something goes wrong, (Clearly DDs fault) the WHOLE group either blames the healer or tank.

I do agree BRD is a good fix to ARC, so as to avoid mechanics where people outside of AoEs are the only desired DDs. (All bosses AoE now adays, its the only way programmers know how to make hard fights.)

BUT i also think it was bad for SE to drop such a surprise on people like that.Similar with CNJ going full blown healer, and THM going full blown DD (for those who wanted the opposite, back when it was possible.)

[DNO]

It's likely that neither Archer nor Bard would have fared well in XIV alone. - However, since I'm not the type of person to make a claim and not back it up, a bit of a history lesson and update on MMO building.

Ranged DPS is hard to fit into modern MMO mechanics, where classes have more responsibilities than they used to. In early MMOs, especially over dial-up, battle was basic, laggy, and slow - every class's job was simple. It had to be. Either take damage, do damage, make people take less or do more damage, or heal people who are taking damage. Today, that's not the case. Every job has more responsibilities. Hate rotations, skillchains, snap judgment on single-target heals, timing on "support" abilities - but ranged DPS remains largely unaltered. Stand back, hit hard, don't get yourself killed. While every other job gets more complex, ranged DPS still just stands off to the side and tries to not get hate. This can't continue to be the case; it's not fair, it's not balanced, and it throws the responsibility scale way off.

This is related to, but the flip-side of, the problem that plagues non-damage support classes such as Bard. Jobs that DPS but have support abilities (crowd control, hate management, acute cures, etc.) fare better now than ever - we've brought in the mechanics of split-second timing, positioning, etc. However, non-damage support faces problems from two directions: One, like Archer, it's hard to expand its responsibilities without expanding its capabilities, non-damage support classes still just buff and run (sometimes pulling, but in XIV there really isn't much "pulling"). In order to remain relevant, these classes have to take part in battle to a more complex degree.

Most importantly, in FFXIV, where every class should be able to hold its own solo; at the very least, either the starter class, or the job it evolves into, need to be combat capable. Support-to-Support class-to-job evolution would leave the player helpless to do anything alone.

The solution here, as far as SE is concerned, was to combine the responsibilities of these two jobs, ensuring their continued relevance in the modern MMO age. I think it's a brilliant idea; the job sounds fast-paced, multi-faceted, fun as hell, and their concept art is BEYOND GORGEOUS.

I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Archers in this game, even now, rush into battle, do damage willynilly until the dot goes red, and then just stand there until it goes away. When someone runs off without paying attention and gets aggro? it's usually an archer. When someone's not paying attention and takes hate? It's usually an archer. A little more responsibility, ironically, isn't going to get them (or me) killed.

Wow WONDERFULLY written. i must say i was one of those who lvled up ARC then heard about bard and was a little sad. But in thinking about it it could become a fun job as long as i can still do goos DPS and then buff to help the party. It would be like Corsair (which was crazy fun as hell the job did crazy DPS and buffed the hell out of the team lol)

Im excited

[Arya]

Wow WONDERFULLY written. i must say i was one of those who lvled up ARC then heard about bard and was a little sad. But in thinking about it it could become a fun job as long as i can still do goos DPS and then buff to help the party. It would be like Corsair (which was crazy fun as hell the job did crazy DPS and buffed the hell out of the team lol)

Im excited

It might be fun, I agree. Unfortunately, it's not what I wanted to get out of a ranged class. I expected a damage dealing class that specialised in ranged attacks. If the damage is being dropped and ARC's are being pushed towards more of a support role with BRD, I'm not sure whether I would stay with ARC.....Maybe I'd need to take a break from game or just concentrate on my crafting until Musketeer comes out because while I don't mind playing the other classes from time to time, none of them interests me as a long term main. It's sad really.

[DNO]

It might be fun, I agree. Unfortunately, it's not what I wanted to get out of a ranged class. I expected a damage dealing class that specialised in ranged attacks. If the damage is being dropped and ARC's are being pushed towards more of a support role with BRD, I'm not sure whether I would stay with ARC.....Maybe I'd need to take a break from game or just concentrate on my crafting until Musketeer comes out because while I don't mind playing the other classes from time to time, none of them interests me as a long term main. It's sad really.

if none of the classes interests you why are u playing? should of been quit

[Lavani]

if none of the classes interests you why are u playing? should of been quit

Because there is or was a class that was interesting to him, and many other people. Now it's being pushed into something that is not fun for those people.

any1 complaining there is not ranged DPS. just stick an M in front of it and go a blackmage

Because mages are the most boring class in the game. Fun is a relative term, what's fun for me, is not always going to be fun for everyone else and vice versa.