Did Machinist just get nerfed?

[KingFrost]

"Less utility. More Damage." Yet both Machinist and Ninja exist in the same game. My condolences. I can't play Machinist since my ADD only allows for me to play classes that go nuts, and as such, I admire your guy's ability to do work with them. I'll post this for the sake of solidarity.

[Elnidfse]

I'm neither questioning nor doubting the time and efforts you've put into adapting, let me be clear on that. I however disagree about the changes feeling horrible. If I'm in the minority for that, I can live with that.

It overall feels like a step forward. A short, shaky one, but I don't expect anything major until SE gets whatever metrics they say they look for on their end.

I don't. Whatever the dynamic MCH has is now streamlined.
No wildfire/mildfire
No heat management at all. With proper CD usage you'll be lucky if you have to glance at it
Harder to overheat intentionally
It's gooned all over our AoE rotation giving that it takes twice as long to enter overheat
And did I mention that after the first opener wildfire you will never have to use cooldown to manage heat? You know. That ability that was DESIGNED to manage heat?

So what do you have with this?

A job who only 1-2-3 and shoves ammo in, occasionally hitting gauss round. And this barely changes when it's time to overheat wildfire. This isn't an opinion, the job has become a joke of what it was in HW days. Meant only to reward people who wanted that MCH fantasy but would rather have a job with a rotation as complex as hitting buttons as they come off of cooldown and not people who actually liked the EFFORT the job required. And on top of that it's not even a damage buff. So I'm not sure what part of this am I supposed to like.

And if you want to know how much other people ..."approve" of these changes, look no further than the Machinist thread on the JP forums, reddit, twitter, or whatever social outlet you love sticking to. All I wanted was the job to have a slightly higher payoff for the effort. Now they took away all effort and kept the payoff approximately the same, and I'm supposed to be happy with this? I LIKED getting good at managing my heat. And overheating intentionally felt GOOD.

[Eir_Z]

I've been plugging away with MCH for the past few hours in Omega normal for weeklies.

Honestly, the job feels a lot more like 3.x which I think is a good thing. The reduced heat on HS and 123 means there's more opportunity to use QR to force a 3 proc instead of using CD every few 123. I'm not sure if it's a gain, loss, or wash tbh.

Wildfire is a bit different now since you can't generate enough heat to fit 2 CDs in the rotation. I've been overheating with each wildfire because it amounts to 4 GCDs without the 5% buff now. Just plan to use BS after attaching your gauss barrel except the first one. That said, I've been setting up for the 323 WF and overheating just after starting WF with a 1. That's probably not the optimal rotation.

Thinking about it, WF should be setup for 323; HC - 1 (overheat) - Re - WF - 3 - QR - 2 - RF - 3 - Rico - CD - GR - CD - boom
At least that should fit and put heat just below 50... will have to do some testing.

[Elnidfse]

A few things boss:
1). You overheat every wildfire
2) 3.x? Maybe if you removed all of our OGCDs and remove our wild/mild. 3.x also had cast times, buffs that you actually cared to sync up, and a bigger emphasis of fight timers. I'll post more about that below.
3) You didn't waste ammo on cooldown from QR anyways. You always went for a proc. The loss of any cooldown at all is a loss in the rotation. THe 3% buff is actually more of a bandaid fix to fix something that they knew was going to be broken. Without it our damage would probably flat out be worse.

The only thing they did to the job was make it easier, far different from how it was in 3.x and far different than it is now. Also

4) The problem with the 3/2/3 double cooldown opener now is that you have to burn for more than a GCD to achieve the sweetspot, which is bad and should not be done. So that opener is in the trash unless the DPS loss somehow equates to a net gain.
You do indeed 3/2/3 every post opener wildfire because there's no reason not to. You will never use cooldown after the opener wildfire. Which means the job effectively has nothing going on for it outside of wildfires but less mechanically attentive wildfires than 3.x

Mind you that I am happy that at least somebody is in love with the changes I guess but after playing this job for 2 years I would hope they'd make changes meant for people who are married to the damn thing. Simply put. The lack of any significant management of anything has now created a boring experience instead of a dynamic one.

3.x had

• damaging oGCD weaving
• extreme cooldown management
• 1:30/3:00 wildfires
• beautiful boss jump/reset damage and
• strong ABC (always b casting) gameplan on top of
• doing amazing damage and providing terrific support for physical and/or magical comps.

4.x MCH has

• 1-2-3 overheat wildfire
• Next to no cooldown management. (giving that you'll be pressing them as they come up unless jump)
• No damaging OGCD weaves
• no wild/milds
• no amazing reset damage
• no gameplan revolving around ABCs
• And subpar rDPS damage contribution

It's the furthest away from any sort of MCH we've even had. The only thing 3.x and 4.x HAD was mechanical complexity. Which no longer exists for MCH. So Yoshi achieved his job by making the job accessible for damn near anybody but removed the last remnants of the job (the execution) that people cared about. And do you know how late it is to try and level and skill up with another job. We're running savage tonight. I can't just magic BRD up to 70 and learn it's rotation in 3 hours. Which is unfortunate...

[MomoOG]

I've been plugging away with MCH for the past few hours in Omega normal for weeklies.

Honestly, the job feels a lot more like 3.x which I think is a good thing. The reduced heat on HS and 123 means there's more opportunity to use QR to force a 3 proc instead of using CD every few 123. I'm not sure if it's a gain, loss, or wash tbh.Wildfire is a bit different now since you can't generate enough heat to fit 2 CDs in the rotation. I've been overheating with each wildfire because it amounts to 4 GCDs without the 5% buff now. Just plan to use BS after attaching your gauss barrel except the first one. That said, I've been setting up for the 323 WF and overheating just after starting WF with a 1. That's probably not the optimal rotation.

Thinking about it, WF should be setup for 323; HC - 1 (overheat) - Re - WF - 3 - QR - 2 - RF - 3 - Rico - CD - GR - CD - boom
At least that should fit and put heat just below 50... will have to do some testing.

I'm stilling using CD323CD wildfire rotation with overheat on each except the first one. To set up the CD323CD I don't use CD at all between wildfires (except after the first one cause opener WF is different due to no overheat on it) to make sure I am at the right heat range. I haven't done a lot of math to figure out if it is optimal though.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

And if you want to know how much other people ..."approve" of these changes, look no further than the Machinist thread on the JP forums, reddit, twitter, or whatever social outlet you love sticking to. All I wanted was the job to have a slightly higher payoff for the effort. Now they took away all effort and kept the payoff approximately the same, and I'm supposed to be happy with this? I LIKED getting good at managing my heat. And overheating intentionally felt GOOD.

I actually share your sentiments here. At least with liking the job, intentional overheats, and wanting a higher payoff. SE did mention that the MCH camp was rather split on what they wanted, so I feel like they went for the easy fix (which I fully expected, actually worse even). I personally don't feel that awkward stop gap in dealing damage or generating heat anymore, and in no time at all seemed to work out a rhythm that just worked for me. No, I'm not topping the enmity list behind the tanks, but I'm certainly not dead last. I would like to think that means I'm doing something right. I wish I could elaborate, but it was done with a little experimentation and a lot of feel. It could be sub-optimal for all I know, but I too have yet to step into Savage to really see how and if it works.

I never felt managing heat was hard, I did feel it was awkward busywork at times (but this is more comparing it to the Heavensward MCH, not 4.0/.01). I would love to have the old HW MCH back, but that's nostalgia won't do much for anyone right now. I don't hate what the job has become, and I can agree we simply need more. More damage, more utility, whichever. I can live with either. I'm just not privvy to call it the End of Days for our job.

[Elnidfse]

I'm just not privvy to call it the End of Days for our job.

I would say it's the Reduction of Fun. I can support this with how ever many ways is necessary.

On this topic

I'm not topping the enmity list behind the tanks, but I'm certainly not dead last.

I've never been dead last. Performing at the 85-90 range I'm either first or second. When playing with my FC I can happily be 3rd. My output may mathematically needed tweaking and I would be fine with tweaking. What I'm not fine with is the last bit of flavor being sucked out of the job. Now it's arbitrarily button presses. The job gauge might as well not exist and should instead be a static buff that says overheat for all that the heat gauge matters. What's more there should never really have been a lull/stop gap anyways with how it was before if you performed well enough. And that's the thing. The smaller nuances don't feel as present. I don't know man. I just dislike it.

[AmandaLashaquoa]

I am not having fun with this MCH.
I see myself pressing "1" (my button for split shot) way TOO often and repeatedly... this is NOT nice and the job feels even slower now, I am actually seeing smaller dps if not the same.

[Focant]

I've done a few SSS kills and some Normal Omega runs with Mch and I have to say, I'm not a fan of the changes. The damage is largely the same, but the rotation feels sluggish and clunky. Even though I've found a rhythm of sorts, it's still a slog getting heat high enough to prep a wildfire combo. The whole thing is discordant. I've also personally hated ground target skills so the need to constantly resummon the turret now that overdrive is at least break even is making the whole mess feel even worse. Overheating is still worthless and I honestly find myself ignoring it all together with no apparent downside stemming from that decision.

The patch was a net loss for Machinist in my mind, undoubtedly. The fun is diminished and the dps is the same. They took the one thing about the job that was done right and ruined it. It's not wholesale awful, but it's like a clock out of sync. It doesn't feel right anymore.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I am not having fun with this MCH.
I see myself pressing "1" (my button for split shot) way TOO often and repeatedly... this is NOT nice and the job feels even slower now, I am actually seeing smaller dps if not the same.

You can use Quick Reload to guarantee a Slug Shot proc without affecting your heat now (specifically, no loss on use, but no gain on the next shot). You shouldn't need to have to spam Split Shot for that reason.