How will NIN nerfs affect them?

[Joe777]

...I really don't get why people are speaking about "great/super utility" when in reality it's only TA why Nin is viable.

Sure other jobs can slash debuff and influence enmity in their own way but NIN has it all wrapped in 1 package. 1 less thing for others to worry about if NIN has it covered.

On topic though I also don't get the logic behind the nerf. Square Enix should elaborate more on this...

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I think it's just an excuse to cover their own bad math while flattering the playerbase. They'd still be overtuned even if their SSS DPS requirement was entirely accurate.

Their SSS is exactly the same as Monk isn't it? So basically, Ninja is expected to be as strong as Monk, which makes no sense considering the gap in utility.

[Zetic]

Their SSS is exactly the same as Monk isn't it? So basically, Ninja is expected to be as strong as Monk, which makes no sense considering the gap in utility.

While there solo dps is the same their party dps shoots way up because brotherhood grants them chakra when party members attack while under it. This makes their dps higher than NINs

[Alistaire]

Truth be told, I have no idea what they mean with that. The rotation nowadays is very rigid and doesn't allow for a tremendous amount of overall alternation. My guess is that they alternated between Shadow Fang, Aeolian Edge and Armor Crush when testing, whereas players used Aeolian Edge twice whenever the Huton timer was higher than 40.

But then why nerf Gust Slash...? Ah, to heck if I understand this dev team >_>

The "different rotation" might not have anything to do with Gust Slash. It doesn't have to tbh.

What the dev team probably overlooked was that fuma>katon>doton under TCJ was more potent on 1 target than using the single-target ninjutsu....but then if they nerf either katon or doton it messes with aoe potencies, so they decide to just lower a single-target move instead, lowering NIN's single-target overall potency while leaving aoe potency untouched.

[Zojha]

What the dev team probably overlooked was that fuma>katon>doton under TCJ was more potent on 1 target than using the single-target ninjutsu....

The difference is very small though and only happens once every few minutes AND only if the enemy doesn't move out of Doton (or jumps/goes invuln during its duration)

I mean...
240
360
180
= 780 x 2 = 1560.
240
250
320
= 810 x 2 = 1620.

That's a mere 60 potency gain over 100 seconds. I kinda doubt it's something that small - it's gotta be something bigger, hence why I figured they'd simply not optimize Aeolian Edge usage. At 2 seconds GCD, rotating through all 3 combos takes 18 seconds and you necessarily clip Shadow Fang by 3 seconds - not enough to allow rotation deviation, as all combos are 3 step now. You clip Armor Crush by 12 seconds however - that's two combos worth of time. That's at the very least 40 potency every 30 seconds and thus, double the TCJ advantage at 90 seconds already.

[Lastelli]

Leave NIN alone? You mean the class that has been eternally meta and now is meta + 1? Nah fuck that, NIN finally needs some adjusting. They were perfect in 3.x, they had a low damage ceiling because they focused on support but they were also flexible in fights so the performed well anyway. Now they are just as flexible, with the super useful utility they still have but are now one of the strongest dps in the game.

^this. Nin has been meta since it was released in 2.4. In HW its amazing utility was justified by the fact that it was on average the lowest dps in the game, but currently it's the 4th strongest dps on avg and it still bring the same incredible utility (minus goad that it's now shared but since we have infinite tp who cares). It had to be nerfed and reducing the potency of the skill they use more often is the easiest way to do it.

[Alistaire]

The difference is very small though...

It's not about how much of a gain it is; it's about how likely it was that SE overlooked it. And we don't know how much of a nerf this will be, could be 10 potency. You're absolutely right about what you say but it's also much more likely that SE already took that into account.

[Zojha]

It's not about how much of a gain it is; it's about how likely it was that SE overlooked it.

Well, they overlooked STR accessories in spite of having that exact same issue like 3-4 patches before. They overlooked Holy upon ARR release when it had 260 potency with no fall-off. I'm more inclined to believe they overlooked the obvious nowadays.

As for how much of a nerf: Even a 5 potency nerf would more than make up for the TCJ increase. You will use one Gust Slash every 6 seconds, which means after 72 seconds, you already made up for that unintended damage increase via TCJ.

[Valenth]

It was also bugged and dealt physical damage, which dripping blades and slash debuff increased. Now it's magic and doesn't receive bonus from those. So it was actually nerfed. :/

Yup, they essentially decreased it's output dmg by 20% despite the potency buff (which was a 10% buff). I wished I had played NIN before it, wondering how strong those Bhavacakra's back then were. xD

[Dzian]

I keep reading stuff like "NIN has soooo much utility" by people when the5 only reason they are/were in the meta is TA.

More recently perhaps.
In he though they had exclusive use of glad which in many cases was better than a bards apron because it didn't cost any dps. Where apron dropped a bards dps quite significantly. Plus it was rare that multiple party members were to starved at the same time making oaeon even more of a waste.

Shade walker and smokescreen also lot more functional.

Many of the role skills are derived from what a ninja offered a party. That's a good indication of how important they were.