Dragoon Poll (Should DRG have a Wyvern?)

[Lienn]

Not a really good idea.. a pet never ever replaces a real player. that would be just one more reason for all haters not to invite a drg.

i mean... a drg with a wyvern pet would do much more damage than a simple lancer although he would do about 15-20% less pole damage than a lancer... you have to look at the total damage and thats what it is about. maybe the wyvern attacks would add about 40% to the total damage? more damage in total than a lancer can do on his own.

so i dont understand people to get frightened about "woah i would get weaker when they're going to implement a pet". seems to me like "increasing my p** size"


i mean pet classes like "hunter" or "warlock" in WoW are for example are not less dangerous because they have a pet. On the contrary

Well, it wouldn't really make DRGs OP...the pet would be even in performance but also in cost...you wouldn't be able to summon the wyvern if the PT was full. This is why they wouldn't need to gimp DRGs in any way.

[Tonkra]

Well, it wouldn't really make DRGs OP...the pet would be even in performance but also in cost...you wouldn't be able to summon the wyvern if the PT was full. This is why they wouldn't need to gimp DRGs in any way.

why do you and all are talking about "gimping" the damage because of receiving a pet? Ever heard anything of "logic"? i dont get it.

YES it does mean to slightly weaken the damage table of the polearm weapon but it also means to add up the wyvern damage. so all in all maybe in the end its more dmg?
Its so much of an advantage to be a petclass... you have the advantage to be two chars (attacking 2 players at the same time and stuff like that)
Just look like classes like Hunter or Warlock in WoW. they REALLY count to the more powerful classes.

as an example:
a job like Lancermaster 125% polearm damage = 125%

Dragoon 100% pole damage + Wyvern damage (lets say) 40% damage = 140% + of the advantage to be two and not only one character

yes the dragoon in comparison to the lancemaster does less polearm damage, because he counts to the hybrid class damage table. but therefore he receives a pet to his side doing damage besides his own.
all in all the dragoon ends up being much more of a damage dealer than the lancemaster.

with advantages like in FFXI that the wyvern had abillities like "healing" breath or that, as a duo, they could perform weapon skillchains on their own. so you have also tactically advantages!

This and all the typical dragonic skills like jump attack etc. we know a dragoon can perform.

[Nayt]

why do you and all are talking about "gimping" the damage because of receiving a pet? Ever heard anything of "logic"? i dont get it.

YES it does mean to slightly weaken the damage table of the polearm weapon but it also means to add up the wyvern damage. so all in all maybe in the end its more dmg?
Its so much of an advantage to be a petclass...
Just look like classes like Hunter or Warlock in WoW. they REALLY count to the more powerful classes.

as an example:
a job like Lancermaster 125% polearm damage = 125%

Dragoon 100% pole damage + Wyvern damage (lets say) 40% damage = 140% + of the advantage to be two and not only one character

yes the dragoon in comparison to the lancemaster does less polearm damage, because he counts to the hybrid class damage table. but therefore he receives a pet to his side doing damage besides his own.
all in all the dragoon ends up being much more of a damage dealer than the lancemaster.

with advantages like in FFXI that the wyvern had abillities like "healing" breath or that, as a duo, they could perform weapon skillchains on their own. (besides all typical dragonic skills, like jump attack and so on)

You're referencing WoW, where balance is like a rubber ball.

There's no way SE would give a dragoon 15% extra damage output just because they have an additional pet, unless they made it really technical, difficult or a wyvern made of paper. They would be forced to balance it, giving this boost a downside one way or another.

I rather fight on my own than rely on a braindead AI companion. That's why I play an MMO, and not a single player game with a bunch of NPC's running around, "helping" me

[Tonkra]

You're referencing WoW, where balance is like a rubber ball.

There's no way SE would give a dragoon 15% extra damage output just because they have an additional pet, unless they made it really technical, difficult or a wyvern made of paper. They would be forced to balance it, giving this boost a downside one way or another.

I rather fight on my own than rely on a braindead AI companion

am well thats balancing about... if the damage dealer role is in form of an additional pet.. then its the way like this.
in FFXI the wyvern was also a damage add of about 30%> to his own weapon damage.
When i did for example 140 damage with auto attack the wyvern did around 55 damage
and yes the dragoon fit in the damage dealer role because of this.
while a drk did maybe 180 with one attack

its not that YOU (the dragoon itself) has to do the damage all in all to count as a damage dealer. you have to see the TOTAL damage of pet+dragoon itsself to say that he is a damage dealer. (and he was in FFXI)

SE would do it maybe this way (yoshida said they would need to slightly decrease the pole damage but in contrast taking the wyvern damage into account) :

DRG in 1.21. Polearm Damage 100% -> total damage of 100%
DRG in 2.0. Pole Damage 75% + Wyvern damage 25/35% -> 100%/110%

it could mean that you do almost the same damage or it can also mean that they will increase the damage (as a total drg+wyvern) because there is a risk for the wyvern pet to die. and to compansate this, giving him slightly more damage as a total.

WE dont know how they would balance this.
But all people are saying "they gimp my damage"... yes they do.. the poledamage itself.. but it doesnt mean that they "gimp" the whole damage.


what i can say petclasses are always very powerful in every single MMorpg... especially when it comes to PVP! just to tell you this. its an advantage to control two chars at the same time ...

coming from MMorpgs like DarkAgeOfCamelot, WAR, AION, LINEAGE II etc.

[Nayt]

am well thats balancing about... if the damage dealer role is in form of an additional pet.. then its the way like this.
in FFXI the wyvern was also a damage add of about 30%> to his own weapon damage.
and yes the dragoon fit in the damage dealer role because of this.

it not that YOU have to do the damage all in all to count as a damage dealer. you have to see the TOTAL damage of pet+dragoon itsself to say that he is a damage dealer. (and he was in FFXI)

That's exactly what I said?

My point being that you seemed to suggest it would deal more damage in your previous post.

My other point being that since it would be balanced regardless, I rather see it wyvern-less because I like dragoon and I prefer to fight without pets.

[Tonkra]

My other point being that since it would be balanced regardless, I rather see it wyvern-less because I like dragoon and I prefer to fight without pets.

and why dont you stick to lancer? or why aren't you happy with your lancer class? or chosing 2-handed Warrior (pure fighter damage dealer class). lancer is a traditional drg. he's just not named like it.
like you're saying a conjurer is not a white mage.(no he just has spells like curega,silena,protect,cure,banish,dia..) no the conjurer isnt a whitemage at all! because he isnt named like that! oh hell yes he is!

well didnt SE said that the drg in 1.21 wont have jump attack because of the game engine right now?

oh im so sorry for that. (humanity -.-)

[Nayt]

and why dont you stick to lancer? or chosing 2-handed Warrior (pure fighter damage dealer class). lancer is a traditional drg. he's just not named like it.
like you're saying a conjurer is not a white mage. oh hell yes he is!

well didnt SE said that the drg in 1.21 wont have jump attack because of the game engine right now?

oh im so sorry for that.

If I want to play lancer, I play lancer. But it's not lancer I'm interested in, it's DRG. There's the difference. I want the DRG Yoshi said he was working on; the high-end critical damage job. Not the same old broken pet job which has been in ffxi for nearly a decade.

Oh, and as for that final remark, you'll do a poor job at trolling in english until you learn the language.

[Tonkra]

If I want to play lancer, I play lancer. But it's not lancer I'm interested in, it's DRG.

ok tell me the difference between lancer and drg? is it the purple AF Armor?

why arent you interested in lancer? its the same playstyle... ok its just the class name?
i only say "kain fanboys" in this thread..

if you dont like lancer how it is now. you do not really like the traditional dragoon.


its like i would say as a conjurer.. i dont like the conjurer... because he only got spells like curega,protect,stoneskin,banish,dia,silenca,resurection... no i dont like it i want to be a whitemage


only say the truth. you were one of those who hates petclasses and never invited drg's in FFXI because of the flying pet :P


sorry for all the sarcasm.

[Icecylee]

So... out of curiosity, if Jobs are intended to further define character roles in large parties, why are people talking about how awesome soloing with a wyvern dragoon could be? Isn't that exactly the opposite of what the Jobs are supposed to be for?

[Jennestia]

You can disagree all you want, ppl want Dragoon as it is like now.

Dragoon doesn't exist now, however the idea of Dragoon now is nothing new, so yeah, it is true, people don't want it to be anything new.

By the by: Did you know, Dragoon's Jump has always been Critical Based damage and had the same calculations as a critical hit in every game it appeared in?

The only reason a Dragoon would be 'weaker' with a pet is because the pet is being considered a part of the job instead of as a pet itself (which are pet jobs, Dragoon was never a pet job.) Balancing pet jobs isn't a nightmare on the development level -- It's a nightmare because as proven, the community is all over the place in ideals.

Since saying Dragoon is a pet job is the same as saying a RDM/SMN was a pet job.