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  1. #1
    Player
    Allyrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,231
    Character
    Allyrion Windwalker
    World
    Yojimbo
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaSonic View Post
    BLM should deal more damage than SAM. There's no discussion.

    BLM = 0 Utility
    SAM = Slashing Debuff. The fact that NIN is mandatory because its OP trick attack doesn't mean that SAM doesn't have utility. SAM should be another option to bring instead of NIN. NIN and SAM should compete for the same spot in a party because both provide Slashing debuff, SAM higher DPS and NIN higher supportive abilities.

    And for people telling that BLM is ranged and should deal less damage than melee. BLM is the DPS that is the most punished by mechanics that require movement.
    The Slashing debuff is pretty moot since you're leaving out that WAR brings it too. So for SAM to have any group contribution, you need DRK/PLD as tanks and no NIN.

    While BLM has no innate utility, being a caster comes with some through the role actions - particularly Mana Shift and Apocatastasis. That doesn't make them better off for the caster slot but it does count overall when the melee role actions don't offer much utility.

    BLM's AoE damage is a factor as well most likely but I wouldn't argue that it should be. AoE is fairly negligible for content where comp actually matters.

    BLM should do similar damage to a Samurai on a dummy, and not much more or less. That I agree with. It's ranged advantage would be negated by casting being interrupted by mechanics.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    ReplicaX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,020
    Character
    Methos Ranperre
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Allyrion View Post
    The Slashing debuff is pretty moot since you're leaving out that WAR brings it too. So for SAM to have any group contribution, you need DRK/PLD as tanks and no NIN.

    While BLM has no innate utility, being a caster comes with some through the role actions - particularly Mana Shift and Apocatastasis. That doesn't make them better off for the caster slot but it does count overall when the melee role actions don't offer much utility.

    BLM's AoE damage is a factor as well most likely but I wouldn't argue that it should be. AoE is fairly negligible for content where comp actually matters.

    BLM should do similar damage to a Samurai on a dummy, and not much more or less. That I agree with. It's ranged advantage would be negated by casting being interrupted by mechanics.
    Not to mention there are many fights in this game where the mechanics do favor Caster DPS over Melee DPS. I feel many BLMs overlook this.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    AlphaSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    516
    Character
    Shaartis Laggal
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Allyrion View Post
    Snip
    Goad, Feint, Leg Sweep. More or less similar utility as a caster.

    Slashing debuff, If you don't have WAR and NIN in a party it's utility. Stop denying the fact, that SAM doesn't bring anything. It CAN bring more utility than BLM in some compositions. BLM will NEVER bring utility, NEVER.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReplicaX View Post
    Not to mention there are many fights in this game where the mechanics do favor Caster DPS over Melee DPS. I feel many BLMs overlook this.
    Have you ever played BLM? Do you think that constant movement mechanics favor BLM? Are you that ignorant? Everytime you move as a BLM is a DPS loss, as a melee, every time you are out of range is a DPS loss, but you can move while DPSing, more over, you don't have nearly anything to cast most of the time, so you don't get interrupted.
    (1)
    Last edited by AlphaSonic; 07-11-2017 at 11:38 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Lewtskie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    550
    Character
    Rynka Shadowrane
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaSonic View Post
    Have you ever played BLM? Do you think that constant movement mechanics favor BLM? Are you that ignorant? Everytime you move as a BLM is a DPS loss, as a melee, every time you are out of range is a DPS loss, but you can move while DPSing, more over, you don't have nearly anything to cast most of the time, so you don't get interrupted.
    Yeah the issues of mobility and hard casting always made it look the most unappealing. That said I can get behind people pushing through mechanics if the Job pleases them on an aesthetic level, but if the only thing to make people overlook such clunkiness was big numbers then something does seem fundamentally wrong.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    TankHunter678's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    873
    Character
    Selena Zensh
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaSonic View Post
    Goad, Feint, Leg Sweep. More or less similar utility as a caster.

    Slashing debuff, If you don't have WAR and NIN in a party it's utility. Stop denying the fact, that SAM doesn't bring anything. It CAN bring more utility than BLM in some compositions. BLM will NEVER bring utility, NEVER.
    Sure lets not have BLMs bring along Mana Shift to help keep the healers mana up, or Apoctastasis where they can throw it on the tank to help them get through magic TBs like Exdeath's Thunder 3.

    The best SAM can bring besides a slash debuff is Goad, which is only useful in AoE situations if you have another big TP consumer in the party, or feint which has a questionable influence on damage but BLMs get Addle as their version. So technically BLMs do bring as much if not more useful utility then SAM does. Especially since Leg Sweep is also useless on the vast majority of bosses.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    AlphaSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    516
    Character
    Shaartis Laggal
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by TankHunter678 View Post
    Sure lets not have BLMs bring along Mana Shift to help keep the healers mana up, or Apoctastasis where they can throw it on the tank to help them get through magic TBs like Exdeath's Thunder 3.

    The best SAM can bring besides a slash debuff is Goad, which is only useful in AoE situations if you have another big TP consumer in the party, or feint which has a questionable influence on damage but BLMs get Addle as their version. So technically BLMs do bring as much if not more useful utility then SAM does. Especially since Leg Sweep is also useless on the vast majority of bosses.
    You are so brave, thanks for sharing your story.
    (2)