BLM should be the SAM of casters.

[Arutan]

28k Foul seems alright to me. I'm not even that geared.

I do the same with my RDM. On normal spell. I was main BLM 'til StormBlood, and RDM charmed me with the release. It has a greater moving ability with same amount of DPS if not greater, now I just can't play BLM back, it just feel so slow everytime and doesn't even deal more damages. Plus with all those new fight asking to move a lot it's a pain in the a**. IMO BLM is gonna die if he's not up.

[Neophyte]

I think the important thing to understand is that BLM has a much better arsenal of tools for AoE damage than both SAM and RDM, and as this is one of their strengths this is where they should excel.Trying to make them the 'Samurai' of mages doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because they're very different in their goals.

This. In a A9s similar fight (when it was new released and not the later one, when adds were ignored and Boss was just killed before Faust with physical meta) a BLM or a SMN blows RDM out of the water.
They just slightly adjust their rotation and while blasting all the adds away with their almost free AoE-moves the other ones can go full single-target on boss.

While dealing with adds, a RDM almost halves his single target potency on boss for about the duration.
Instead of Melee combo+verholy/flare = 1520 potency you can do 3xMoulinet+Scatter = 900 pot on everyone.
Also 35 MP net loss [10+10 more costs for 3xmelee AoE instead of single, no 21MP for use of verholy/flare, but Scatter gives a bit] and one 100% proc less, delaying your next melee Combo [i.e. "your rotation"] by about 2-3 GCDs.
Scatter spam <=> single-target spell rotation... similar.

A SMN and a BLM have lesser costs for doing AoE and that has to be reflected!
Regarding Foul, Deathflare, Akh Morn, Enkindle there is no "loss", it's just free AoE damage.

[StouterTaru]

If YOU did the math you'd find that your 2.x dummy rotation only did about 6% weaker then your Susano EX run. The purpose of the new 2.x rotation is to give up 5% DPS in exchange for much needed mobility and a much less punishing rotation.

But if you think the math is that off, then feel free to go to the thread I linked and share your findings and rotation there.

The numbers on that thread used 6x F1 for each AF phase. What you have MP for is 5x F1, B3, then pause for MP tick before you can cast thunder.

[AlphaSonic]

BLM should deal more damage than SAM. There's no discussion.

BLM = 0 Utility
SAM = Slashing Debuff. The fact that NIN is mandatory because its OP trick attack doesn't mean that SAM doesn't have utility. SAM should be another option to bring instead of NIN. NIN and SAM should compete for the same spot in a party because both provide Slashing debuff, SAM higher DPS and NIN higher supportive abilities.

And for people telling that BLM is ranged and should deal less damage than melee. BLM is the DPS that is the most punished by mechanics that require movement.

[Allyrion]

BLM should deal more damage than SAM. There's no discussion.

BLM = 0 Utility
SAM = Slashing Debuff. The fact that NIN is mandatory because its OP trick attack doesn't mean that SAM doesn't have utility. SAM should be another option to bring instead of NIN. NIN and SAM should compete for the same spot in a party because both provide Slashing debuff, SAM higher DPS and NIN higher supportive abilities.

And for people telling that BLM is ranged and should deal less damage than melee. BLM is the DPS that is the most punished by mechanics that require movement.

The Slashing debuff is pretty moot since you're leaving out that WAR brings it too. So for SAM to have any group contribution, you need DRK/PLD as tanks and no NIN.

While BLM has no innate utility, being a caster comes with some through the role actions - particularly Mana Shift and Apocatastasis. That doesn't make them better off for the caster slot but it does count overall when the melee role actions don't offer much utility.

BLM's AoE damage is a factor as well most likely but I wouldn't argue that it should be. AoE is fairly negligible for content where comp actually matters.

BLM should do similar damage to a Samurai on a dummy, and not much more or less. That I agree with. It's ranged advantage would be negated by casting being interrupted by mechanics.

[ReplicaX]

The Slashing debuff is pretty moot since you're leaving out that WAR brings it too. So for SAM to have any group contribution, you need DRK/PLD as tanks and no NIN.

While BLM has no innate utility, being a caster comes with some through the role actions - particularly Mana Shift and Apocatastasis. That doesn't make them better off for the caster slot but it does count overall when the melee role actions don't offer much utility.

BLM's AoE damage is a factor as well most likely but I wouldn't argue that it should be. AoE is fairly negligible for content where comp actually matters.

BLM should do similar damage to a Samurai on a dummy, and not much more or less. That I agree with. It's ranged advantage would be negated by casting being interrupted by mechanics.

Not to mention there are many fights in this game where the mechanics do favor Caster DPS over Melee DPS. I feel many BLMs overlook this.

[AlphaSonic]

Snip

Goad, Feint, Leg Sweep. More or less similar utility as a caster.

Slashing debuff, If you don't have WAR and NIN in a party it's utility. Stop denying the fact, that SAM doesn't bring anything. It CAN bring more utility than BLM in some compositions. BLM will NEVER bring utility, NEVER.

Not to mention there are many fights in this game where the mechanics do favor Caster DPS over Melee DPS. I feel many BLMs overlook this.

Have you ever played BLM? Do you think that constant movement mechanics favor BLM? Are you that ignorant? Everytime you move as a BLM is a DPS loss, as a melee, every time you are out of range is a DPS loss, but you can move while DPSing, more over, you don't have nearly anything to cast most of the time, so you don't get interrupted.

[Ferrasper]

To all those claiming about why BLM shouldn't be buffed because of our AOE, let me ask you this? How many fights in EX and raids was our AOE actually used in all the fights? My guess is probably 4 or less which makes that claim kind of pointless and dumb when most fights single target damage and utility is all that matters. As we know, BLM has no utility which means that our single target should be close to or on par with SAMs.

For example, SAM can be dishing out 4600 on the target while the BLM can be dishing out 4500. While SMN and RDM max potential is 4300. Those numbers aren't accurate obviously, but you get the idea.

[Lewtskie]

Have you ever played BLM? Do you think that constant movement mechanics favor BLM? Are you that ignorant? Everytime you move as a BLM is a DPS loss, as a melee, every time you are out of range is a DPS loss, but you can move while DPSing, more over, you don't have nearly anything to cast most of the time, so you don't get interrupted.

Yeah the issues of mobility and hard casting always made it look the most unappealing. That said I can get behind people pushing through mechanics if the Job pleases them on an aesthetic level, but if the only thing to make people overlook such clunkiness was big numbers then something does seem fundamentally wrong.

[Leonus]

I would be fine w/ Blm doing Sam damage on STs if they nerfed their AoE to Samurais as well and gave amn the AoE king title.