So this is PvP now?

[Keramory]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

[Kaisinel]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

How can you think Divine Benison and Protect are useless at all?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm a whm... and nothing is more boring then PvP Whm

Stone is my only attack. I have no aoe spells anymore (holy/medica/aero iii are out).

I have assize, cure, stone, and two near useless single target reduction abilities.

I'd rather be a Sam hopelessly trying to chase brds around

Wait, what? Divine Benison is godly in PvP. 25% mitigation based on the target's max HP, on a 20s cooldown with the potential to reduce it to 10%? If you seriously believe that bad, you have no business playing WHM.

What really gets me is when someone would say "the old PvP had too many buttons"

. . . You mean those same ones you had in PvE content plus like 6 PvP skills, not all of which were always useful (depending on your job)?

Sure, there were some skills that just weren't all that useful in one or the other, and ironically most of the "useless" PvE skills were highly useful in PvP, but beyond that, it was the same kit you were used to at max level. The difference was how it was used. And unfortunately, where many cound play their job right in PvE, having to relearn it for PvP proved "too hard".

As a bitter thought, maybe PvP didn't need the complete overhaul if there was more effort on SE's part to properly explain how PvP actually worked.

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I disagree. There is something to be said about less being more. It wasn't that all those abilities were necessarily difficult, they were simply cumbersome. I had macros to switch around abilities on my hotbars because I didn't have the space otherwise. I'm also someone who prefers most of their abilities on the mouse. I ran out of buttons on a mouse with over 24 of them. Did they scale it back too much? Maybe. But the sheer amount we once had was silly.

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

Further backing up my point, I did some digging and found old screens that had my hotbars in them, I made a little graphic explaining my PvP one as well:

Hotbar 1, entirely unchanged from PvE


Hotbar 2, entirely unchanged from PvE

I can't think of a time I ever really used Grenado Shot, and Split, Slug and Clean were already on hotbar 1. Everything else was used regularly.

Hotbar 3, and this image speaks for itself:

I forgot to note on there the unmarked macro was to turn off Blood for Blood, a skill I didn't use too often anyways because it was a telegraph that you were gonna burst.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So, how do you play PvE content then? Were you not using the same hotbars? None of your PvP skills were automatically added to your bar. Nothing was changed unless you set it up yourself. And personally speaking, on MCH (a job plenty of people claimed had too many buttons/was too confusing to play) I had many redundant skills on my second hotbar, so I actually could've saved enough space to maybe not even need the third hotbar I made just for PvP (again with even MORE redundancies).

I was squeezing out the last bit of space on certain jobs. Dark Knight, for instance, had very little room. Same for Dragoon. There's a reason skill consolidation wasn't exclusively done to PvP after all. Regardless, I did say I managed with hotbar switch macros to drop redundant or useless abilities going from PvE to PvP. That didn't make it any less annoying. I have always thought the PvP only skills were silly when we retained everything we already had. They either should have made PvP only changes to existing abilities or separate the two entirely. They chose the later. I have some criticisms to the new system, but I prefer it to the alternative, especially because they can now make adjustments without worrying about PvE balance issues.