A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB

[PK_THUNER]

The healing is 88.4% of dmg at lv 70

[Marxam]

This is an important point that doesn't seem to get brought up much.

My point exactly. When WAR launched in 2.0 it was a mess but the idea was sound. PLD was the "safe tank", pop a cd here and there and presto instant mitigation. WAR was the "risky tank", high hp pool and no passive mitigation outside of increased healing when in tank stance and it was up to player to best utilize and mix their cool downs for effective mitigation and because it had no inherent mitigation it focused on self sustain. As noted by IB being originally a 300% heal. At the time it was pretty shitty since most tank busters could literally kill you even with the high hp and people not understanding the complexity of the class on launch which is expected. PLD/PLD comps were a thing. IB was changed afterwards to what it was in 3.0, being a 100% self heal with a 20% dmg mitigation for 6 seconds which I liked.

What I don't like is how the heal is now nerfed to 88.4% (IB) and 44.2% (SP) respectively. By doing so you are undermining the whole point of WAR's mitigation. WAR doesn't have an inherent 20% dmg reduction in tank stance like the other two so we have to rely on our self sustain which is directly teid to how much damage we can do, which is almost non existent as of 4.05. I don't even understand the nerf to healing when damage for tanks will inherently be lower than dps. This is one of the reasons why most WAR who have been with the job for a long time understand the idea and design of dealing damage = more mitigation value attack power. We aren't trying to be dps, we are just trying to keep up our mitigation because playing as WAR means that you have full control on how you mitigate.

Also SE made the class dumber to play. Any skill ceiling it used to have is now gone. Before we had to think, where do we Berserk?, should I use RI or Vengeance? Will I need any of those any time soon? How should I time Berserk so I can clip the last weapon skill before pacifying? Where should I infuriate? Two FC's at the start of the rotation or at the end? Questions like these made the class fun and exciting to play. Fast forward to 4.0 and there is only 1 rotation for 6 FC and one Upheaval when berserk + IR. I've played with this job for 3 weeks now did some ex primals, delta nm and playing this job has removed some of the excitement of being a WAR, which was flexibility, adaptability and impact. In 4.05 its static, monotonous, and mundane.

[Poison_Rose]

I don't really have much to add to this conversation other than that I agree with all of the points brought up in the OP.

[YitharV2]

This is an important point that doesn't seem to get brought up much. That is legitimately what Warriors identity is- or at least supposed to be. The IDEA is that our defensive capability is supposed to be tied directly to our offensive capability- which is why we had heavy lifesteal originally, and why IB is an offensive move, and... Bloodbath and... Everything. 3.0 moved away from this a little with deliverance, but the flowing nature of dancing meant that it was effectively the same. Given that warriors kit is built around having high HP instead of direct mitigation, the heals always were effectively the warrior equivalent of dark mind and other weaker but class specific CDs. You literally can not have a warrior not be overall poorly designed while actively removing the core concepts of its design and identity in the first place- hybridization of offense and defense. The self heals and stance dancing and high risk(relatively) high reward gameplay are absolutely essential, once you remove that it's just an entirely new class that we didn't sign up for.

Eh, it was brought up by a really good tank mentor here. I do agree they gutted the identity of the job. Combining offensive tools with defensive tools was really fun.

[Kabooa]

What I don't like is how the heal is now nerfed to 88.4% (IB) and 44.2% (SP) respectively. By doing so you are undermining the whole point of WAR's mitigation. WAR doesn't have an inherent 20% dmg reduction in tank stance.

Warriors get 25% more health (Allowing them to 'take' the same raw damage as any other tank with the same baseline tank stance) and 20% more healing (which gets them to about the same ease of healing). The healing bonus doesn't apply to draining effects. They 'passively' mitigate as much as any other tank. Paladins get the addition of a shield which is what Innerbeast effectively puts on demand.

I'd argue as far as outside solo play, the self healing on Storm Path is negligible at best while on Innerbeast, was effectively unchanged (350 potency from 300 is a 16.6% boost. 88% healing on IB is a 12% loss. 1.16 * .88 = 1.02)

[Falar]

If it was OGCD, it wouldn't probably be weaker than it is now.

Which would be stupid. Considering it will only be used every so often due to the gage requirements it needs to be considerably stronger than Abyssal Drain.

Kind of like how Bloodspiller is way above the other single target attacks (it should also be oGCD, to avoid cutting into globals for SS and SE which build resources) assuming you are in grit, anyway.

It seems that's how a lot of these new "gage moves" work---you get a ST, and AoE. Now that I have leveled Ninja I like what they did there as you get a ST spender and an AoE spender, both stronger than your other options by a good margin and oGCD.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Having thought about it a bit more, there's few things I'd want for WAR. Increased self healing on IB, perhaps 150%, and SP restoring some 75% of its done would make the job feel a tad better, IMHO. Cut the gauge cost to a flat 20-30, and for Upheaval to have a bit more of a burst to it. I still like Onslaught's trading some gauge for a quick rush in to reposition or pick up adds, but a small buff to 110pot wouldn't be poor.

[Kabooa]

Which would be stupid. Considering it will only be used every so often due to the gage requirements it needs to be considerably stronger than Abyssal Drain.

Kind of like how Bloodspiller is way above the other single target attacks (it should also be oGCD, to avoid cutting into globals for SS and SE which build resources) assuming you are in grit, anyway.

It seems that's how a lot of these new "gage moves" work---you get a ST, and AoE. Now that I have leveled Ninja I like what they did there as you get a ST spender and an AoE spender, both stronger than your other options by a good margin and oGCD.

At the absolute worst case scenario (Assuming you build a comfortable threat lead) you get 50 gauge per 15 GCDs, or about 37.5 seconds.

Using a comparable oGCD from a tank (Circle of Scorn, 100 + 150 Dot, 30 seconds), this would make Quietus and even DA Quietus seem weaker as an OGCD at 160/210.

Except Dark Knights generate a fair amount of gauge at rapid intervals depending on the situation. Between Blood Price, Blackest Knight, and Blood Weapon, Quietus can be fired off fairly rapidly (Not to mention two 'charges' effectively held at the ready). The real interval between its use starting from 0 is probably closer to 10-15 seconds, and can be as frequent as every 5 (though this requires large packs and dropping grit for Blood Weapon)

Making it an OGCD would necessitate making it much weaker than even DA Dark Passenger to keep it in line, unless you add a comparable cooldown.

[P4X0R10N]

Stance swap cost really sucks. It's just do unfun.... arghhhhh....

And with no self sustain while in deliverance I HAVE TO rely on people to heal me when doing hunts. That or stay in tank stance when I'M NOT TANKING just so I can heal myself.

I don't wanna think about it too much or I'll infuriate myself and quit the game.

I'm willing to wait until this live letter next week and patch 4.05. If no big changes then I'm gone.

[Poison_Rose]

Stance swap cost really sucks. It's just do unfun.... arghhhhh....

And with no self sustain while in deliverance I HAVE TO rely on people to heal me when doing hunts. That or stay in tank stance when I'M NOT TANKING just so I can heal myself.

I don't wanna think about it too much or I'll infuriate myself and quit the game.

I'm willing to wait until this live letter next week and patch 4.05. If no big changes then I'm gone.

Yeah I've been saying "20 or nothing" but I'd really rather them just get rid of it entirely. Even making it cost 20 still sucks. Especially if you want to pop into defiance for something and then pop back out of it 10 seconds later.