A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB

[Tegernako]

Admittedly I've been enjoying 4.X WAR, at least so far, rather than 3.X WAR. Though, that's largely due to my gripe that WAR was literally the perfect god tank that was untouchable by literally everyone else. While I won't tell people that they shouldn't like it, I tend to grow bored quickly of jobs that are essentially god tier, especially with a lack of cost on stance switching that meant you were never really trading one thing for something else. Course, that's just my opinion.

I don't find anything wrong with your stance either. I mean, you even admitted it's much weaker then before which supports what I'm saying lol

Something to keep in mind though, is that many people didn't choose WAR because it was meta. I personally choose WAR as my first class because I was scared of being a DPS or healer and I read that WAR had a lot of self healing. So this being my first major dive into an MMO I figured if I was a tank with good self healing I'd die less!

It had nothing to do with being the best tank. I'm sure I and many others did not know that either when they decide to main WAR. I learned to love the job because of how it played and how I helped the team. It being "the best" tank had no bearing on those two things, it was just a benefit.

So while you are fine with the job, surely you can at least agree that it getting buffed wouldn't be a bad thing? It doesn't have to be a god tier tank buff, it just needs more then it has right now.

(Also, I am curious as to how you feel about PLD right now seeing as you generally dislike "god tier" tanks?)

[Falar]

Great post, even touched on a lot of the things I have been saying about DRK while fending off the scared (of getting nerfed--that isn't what any of us want) PLDs.

They just took so much from our classes while giving very little in return while PLD just plain got more.

[Tegernako]

Great post, even touched on a lot of the things I have been saying about DRK while fending off the scared (of getting nerfed--that isn't what any of us want) PLDs.

Yes I wanted to comment more on DRK (Specially the lack of OGCD's, the nerfed self healing, and some other strange changes like dark dance being gone and delirum the combo being removed making it have less utility, among other things) but since I don't have it at 70 (64 right now) I didn't want to comment to much on things I hadn't personally experienced. (and I don't even understand in the slightest, quietus. It seems so useless especially with a blood cost of 50)

That being said, DRK suffers from a lot of faults IMO with the few team utilities is has being its only saving grace from (imo) being worse then WAR.

And I don't mean to act like the issues we face are any worse then yours, just that from a utility standpoint DRK still has some benefits! We really need to band together to make our voices heard for both classes!

On a side note, as for why I say IMO in front of like everything, it's so people can't go "OMG STOP ACTING LIKE WHAT YOU SAY IS A FACT!" because apparently if I don't add a disclaimer before everything, people get to ignore what I say because I said it like it was a fact.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

(Also, I am curious as to how you feel about PLD right now seeing as you generally dislike "god tier" tanks?)

WAR could use some help in the self sustain department since that's what the main idea behind the job was. As much as I like the idea of trading in BG to switch stances, I will agree that a flat halving is a bit excessive. 20-30 BG cost would be perfect in my opinion, while unhooking Unchained from Inner Release would be the icing. A cost to changing stances is good since it encourages forethought and planning, but it needs to be reasonable.

As for PLD: I don't have enough experience with them in 4.X, so I can't say much, though while I like the idea of Intervention, considering how much mitigation is in their kit especially compared to DRK, I do think that giving away the ram/Sen buffs with Int is a tad much, particularly with their higher physical dps.

[Tegernako]

WAR could use some help in the self sustain department since that's what the main idea behind the job was. As much as I like the idea of trading in BG to switch stances, I will agree that a flat halving is a bit excessive. 20-30 BG cost would be perfect in my opinion, while unhooking Unchained from Inner Release would be the icing. A cost to changing stances is good since it encourages forethought and planning, but it needs to be reasonable.

As for PLD: I don't have enough experience with them in 4.X, so I can't say much, though while I like the idea of Intervention, considering how much mitigation is in their kit especially compared to DRK, .

Very reasonable.

As for PLD, let me tell you this. With sentinel and intervention two PLD's can have I believe, 90% damage reduction + their tank stance. Double PLD can do some incredible things. If you thought WAR could do crazy things, wait until you see this combo on a tank buster.

[Marxam]

WAR needs to return to its 'mitigation though damage" tanking style. They tried to make WAR a "safer" tank to play, ex removing pacify on berserk but they completely missed the point of WAR. We are supposed to tank "recklessly"! That was the whole lore behind WAR. They need to give war a better self sustain in any stance and not force them to Defiance just to self heal. The OP hit all the marks when it comes to issues with WAR currently prior to 4.05. I'm also curious as to why savage raids still have 2 tanks. If you have one tank main tanking the boss guess what the other tank is doing? They are dealing damage. Unless a fight has adds 100% of the fight duration the other tank will be in dps stance.

But SE didn't include tank damage calculation so in theory the OT only needs to be there for tank swaps and any other time that they are not tanking they can afk because their damage doesn't count towards the overall raid? A bit hyperbolic I know but the point is don't assume that tanks won't help the party with dealing damage when they aren't tanking and don't punish them for doing so. WAR is only trying to help in the only way they can and with the only skills you provided them in 4.0; and that's by acting as a dps.

[Falar]

Yes I wanted to comment more on DRK (Specially the lack of OGCD's, the nerfed self healing, and some other strange changes like dark dance being gone and delirum the combo being removed making it have less utility, among other things) but since I don't have it at 70 (64 right now) I didn't want to comment to much on things I hadn't personally experienced. (and I don't even understand in the slightest, quietus. It seems so useless especially with a blood cost of 50)

That being said, DRK suffers from a lot of faults IMO with the few team utilities is has being its only saving grace from (imo) being worse then WAR.

And I don't mean to act like the issues we face are any worse then yours, just that from a utility standpoint DRK still has some benefits! We really need to band together to make our voices heard for both classes!On a side note, as for why I say IMO in front of like everything, it's so people can't go "OMG STOP ACTING LIKE WHAT YOU SAY IS A FACT!" because apparently if I don't add a disclaimer before everything, people get to ignore what I say because I said it like it was a fact.

YOu're right about Quietus though, total garbage.

Needs to be oGCD and like 200/320 DA to be worth a damn

[Kabooa]

YOu're right about Quietus though, total garbage.

Needs to be oGCD and like 200/320 DA to be worth a damn

If it was OGCD, it wouldn't probably be weaker than it is now.

[Shurrikhan]

Very reasonable.

As for PLD, let me tell you this. With sentinel and intervention two PLD's can have I believe, 90% damage reduction + their tank stance. Double PLD can do some incredible things. If you thought WAR could do crazy things, wait until you see this combo on a tank buster.

Can basically skip Shield Oath by taking every tankbuster with the off-tank. Cus that makes sense. (I do kinda love it, despite the sarcasm.)

[Umbeliel]

WAR needs to return to its 'mitigation though damage" tanking style.

This is an important point that doesn't seem to get brought up much. That is legitimately what Warriors identity is- or at least supposed to be. The IDEA is that our defensive capability is supposed to be tied directly to our offensive capability- which is why we had heavy lifesteal originally, and why IB is an offensive move, and... Bloodbath and... Everything. 3.0 moved away from this a little with deliverance, but the flowing nature of dancing meant that it was effectively the same. Given that warriors kit is built around having high HP instead of direct mitigation, the heals always were effectively the warrior equivalent of dark mind and other weaker but class specific CDs. You literally can not have a warrior not be overall poorly designed while actively removing the core concepts of its design and identity in the first place- hybridization of offense and defense. The self heals and stance dancing and high risk(relatively) high reward gameplay are absolutely essential, once you remove that it's just an entirely new class that we didn't sign up for.