Standings of Black Mage, Red Mage, and Summoner

[Zule]

Hey guys. Admittedly I've posted here maybe...like never. I generally stick to reddit and the likes but I wanted to see what the official forum community had to say. Sooooo, here we go!

A few friends of mine and I have lately been talking alot about casters. Admittedly Red Mage in particular because out of us I'm the only one with a 70 caster, and from perusing on the official forums and reddit it really seems like the majority has locked into a few thoughts in particular.

Generally I see people say that Red Mage is too strong because of their constant mobile DPS allowing them to beat out black mages in any fight with mechanics(i.e every one)+ Support with embolden and faster raises than summoner who they also out dps.

(Sorry for two part post, hit text limit on question!)

[Zule]

How do people believe the healthiest way to balance this is? I've seen alot of people calling out in favor of both nerfing red mage and buffing black mage/summoner, which following S.E's trends in the past seems like it's destined to result in summoner/black mage being viable and red mage not so. I've also seen some people saying they'd like to just see straight buffs to summoner and black mage. Which brings me to the other part of my question I suppose.

How do you buff black mage for mobile fights without absolutely breaking them in fights with less intense mechanics where they get more time to full on turret? Is it even possible or is that just the nature of the beast?

Summoner I think would be easier to fix honestly, with them making Bahamut a faster process to bring out or giving them better aoe/consistent less punishing management etc.

[Kabooa]

I think there's much ado about nothing as is, but if we wanted to deal with some inequities...

Give Black Mages a Temporary Raise ability. 1 minute duration, 5 minute cooldown, ignores Ressurection sickness. Brings back a downed Ally at full power, kills them when it's over. It's a 'Raid save' res, it's not spammable, it's not MP based, it's flavorful for the Job and base class. It won't be as reliable as a hard Res, but if you need someone at full power, this is the spell for it.

[Shiro--Tsubasa]

From what I can see, although I haven't played all three at 70 yet, is that they all fill a niche. (based on reading skill tooltips and watching some videos) One is focused at ST, one is an aoe king, while the other is like a mix of the two while not beating both of them in either it performs fairly well in both. I think that the reason why they seem so imbalanced so far is due to us only seeing one type of boss fight which is basically single enemy with very few if at all adds. Of course when fighting mostly ST the others will appear to be sub-par and the ST focused one will seem overpowered.

[IllyriaKnotfred]

I think there's much ado about nothing as is, but if we wanted to deal with some inequities...

Give Black Mages a Temporary Raise ability. 1 minute duration, 5 minute cooldown, ignores Ressurection sickness. Brings back a downed Ally at full power, kills them when it's over. It's a 'Raid save' res, it's not spammable, it's not MP based, it's flavorful for the Job and base class. It won't be as reliable as a hard Res, but if you need someone at full power, this is the spell for it.

What? No, please no, never this. Black Mages are not necromancers able to control residual life/undead magics. It's not thematic at all. Black Mages cast destructive magics, not restorative.

[Kabooa]

What? No, please no, never this. Black Mages are not necromancers able to control residual life/undead magics. It's not thematic at all. Black Mages cast destructive magics, not restorative.

Lol wat. Black Magic is literally about overflowing power capable of burning someone out. (Killing them)

Jumpstart the body, let them have their Kamina moment, then they go back to being dead.

[Greedalox]

Lol wat. Black Magic is literally about overflowing power capable of burning someone out. (Killing them)

Jumpstart the body, let them have their Kamina moment, then they go back to being dead.

Where are you making the connection between "burning someone out (Killing them)" and "Jumpstarting the body?"

Those sound like contradictions that you're shoehorning as similarities.

[IllyriaKnotfred]

Nonsense.

Oh? Well, please then by all means show me some in game reference or conversation involving Black Mages that even remotely hint as the ability to control life forces.

[ADVSS]

Where are you making the connection between "burning someone out (Killing them)" and "Jumpstarting the body?"

Those sound like contradictions that you're shoehorning as similarities.

I thought
Physick was dumb bc BLM never had a heal. But if drain was a hell of alot better, it should be made BLM eclusive, as that fits perfectly with the job imo. And isnt energy drain on smn better anyway? Totally shouldve been a BLM exclusive for self healing as all dps now have some form of it

[OgruMogru]

I don't think Red Mage needs a nerf just yet, but I would like to see Blm and Smn bought up to speed. Regarding Blm as that's been my main for over 2 years I feel like our potential damage isn't in that bad a spot but the way to achieve satisfying [not even OP just ok] numbers is at odds with the very nature of every fight that isn't a striking dummy. What I really want to see for Blm is for an increase on our AF/UI timers - <13 seconds does not feel like enough and I feel like now that Enochian is tied into this <13 second window it creates more room for errors. Wouldn't have to be increased by more than 1-2 seconds [especially considering things will get easier as SS scaling evens out] but that alone would feel better. [p1]