MCH vs BRD (And why MCH need serious help)

[AmandaLashaquoa]

Bugfixes this time. Balance issues next time when Savage drops. What is so hard to understand about that?

Yoshi P the man himself told you that? Nice.

Btw bards, Our "Foe Requiem" reduces phys/magic resistance too by 5%
Aaand! it lasts 10 seconds.
Yours reduce by 3%, but you have 2% crit full time (if you play it right)
And it lasts as long as you have MP
You now not only deal more dmg (due to having so many DoTs, faster playstyle and dmg ups like crit+ dmg+)
But you are also have more defensives!
*Corrected*

Have a little empathy

Oh, this has nothing to do with us MCH, but yes it does happen and I won't doubt if it ever happened to any other MCH.

Oh you mean like in Gordias, then they were so desperate for them in Midas people were making their BRDs hurry and level MCH?

I'll be laughing just as hard this time too if anyone's foolish enough to refuse any job.

[Cetonis]

REDUCED physical/magical VULNERABILITY, which is applied to your ALLIES. Read it more carefully, and then process it for a minute.

It's a defensive skill. When you become less vulnerable to something, you take less damage from it. When your party becomes less vulnerable to magical damage, they take less magical damage. There is no offensive property to this.

MCH has enough real things to complain about, no need to make stuff up. It only de-legitimizes the case.

[HyoMinPark]

Have a little empathy

I do think MCHs need help, but reduced VULNERABILITY is not the same as an OFFENSIVE buff. Troubadour has never affected the 2% crit buff for ANYONE, party or BRD casting it (and the BRD singing still does NOT get the 2% crit effect). People need to understand this before they come here and complain about BRDs getting a DAMAGE BUFF, which we DID NOT get.

[Berethos]

REDUCED physical/magical VULNERABILITY, which is applied to your ALLIES.

You'd think they would have picked up on this fact after it was mentioned as a defensive ability on previous pages before the rant on this page.

[Cetonis]

If the plan, because SE rarely nerfs anything, is to use brute-force buffs (as is their wont) to bring all jobs up to SAM / NIN level - my inclination re: BRD/MCH (noting that obviously all non-SAMNIN jobs would need to get something) would be:

- Replace the piercing debuff on Disembowel with some self-buff for DRG.
- Make Hot Shot 15% instead of 5%, fix some QoL things
- Make Straight Shot 15% instead of 10%
- Make Army's Paeon 8% per stack instead of 4%

This should see MCH gain ~3% or so on BRD, which is roughly the contributed-damage gap on Susano (I don't want to read too much into Lakshmi given its particulars). And then you could see how savage plays out from there.

SE seems firm in their belief that mobility requires a damage penalty, so we'd still be well short in overall contribution compared to the dynamic duo. I'm unsure if that's actually a correct stance to take, but who knows, they could be right with the way these fights look.

[photometrik]

I posted this in another thread, but I felt it deserves repeating here. The current rotation for the class depresses me with how clunky it feels.

As for FT- I don't see why I can't move while using it. At a reduced speed? Sure. But it's frustrating when every little movement I make wastes the ability.

I find myself skipping OH on WF entirely, only pushing it when additional burst is necessary. I know this gimps my DPS a bit, but it just feels more fluid than the current meta rotation.

The lockout and removal of GB after OH feels too punishing to be worth the 10%, imo. Instead, why not just reset heat to 0? Is that not punishing enough? Ultimately, I'd like to see less focus on a perfect WF and more into sustained dmg, maybe by buffing the potency of Heated Shots while between 50 and 100 heat.

With the current state of MCH, I've been seriously contemplating abandoning my most beloved class for BRD, and that makes me really sad.

[Cetonis]

I'd like to see less focus on a perfect WF

Honest question - why is this the "focus"? In 3.x, centering everything on WF made sense because it wasn't just about WF but also the up to four other damage cooldowns you had in tandem with it, totaling up to some +84% bonus damage beyond 25% from WF. It was about milking a massive burst phase, moreso than WF in particular.

But looking at things now, WF appears to range from 4.25 to 5.75% of a MCH's dps (even on bad runs). The apparent takeaway is that getting super caught up in trying to build perfect WF's is a minor optimization at best, and a significant loss at worst if you make enough sacrifices in the process.

[Elnidfse]

But looking at things now, WF appears to range from 4.25 to 5.75% of a MCH's dps (even on bad runs). The apparent takeaway is that getting super caught up in trying to build perfect WF's is a minor optimization at best

Think of WF as an extension of your overall damage. With a good rotation, the closer you get to 6% the better your overall damage is. Your damage is high regardless because of a rotation in which CDs are sync'd. During the time of setup, your wildfire window is also in the buff windows of other jobs and our own, so you're pushing your big damage at the time of most burst CDs to get higher overall damage. The Wildfire explosion at the end is just a cherry on top.

It's not the case that we're doing a subpar rotation around a WF. It just so happens that the optimal rotation lines up every time with our wildfire and we push ourselves a tiny nudge using an OGCD to optimize it because why not.

[Heimdalgc]

MCH sucks now

[AmandaLashaquoa]

Well, I don't see your point bards, are you asking for more buffs now or what?
You still have DoTs, you have more dmg+ skills, crit+ , now you have defensives.
What is your point, BRD? To say we are equals? or what? What are you complaining about?
MCHs do have every right to rant, your job is way ahead of MCH, what are you trying to prove? If you really can't output more DPS than a MCH then you should roll SAM; As far as I know it is really easy to play BRD, are you mad because we want better skills or what?
I corrected the text above, but even so, you are still at advantage.
"Oh troubadour doesn't give crit" - Yeeah, its some other skill that does, you can have 2% crit up for the whole party, so fucking what if it doesn't affect or used to affect you? Your parties are still better off with BRD than MCH.
Do you even care seeing the point or you just want to halt our chances to get a buff?