Machinist is arguably the biggest let down of a class/job ever to me

[Vallhallix]

Yes, but at least your book changes.

Also, you get to summon Bahamut. Any complaints on 'not cool enough' are silly.

Sure but now it's ''Omg the dragon is so big and such an eyesore SE please delete'' after many years of ''lolsummoner you can't even really summon anything so lame''.

Funny how that works lol. Granted i've only seen such complaints on the forums which tend to be a lot less representitive of in-game.

[Gun-Cat]

We should just face it: We will not get any new skills or meaningful changes to the MCh playstyle in SB. SE has a track record of tinkering with potencies and maybe quality of life, but ratly does something drastic.

That means we can expect either

-tweaks to the potency of skills

or

-adding support effects to already exsisting skills

Personally I'd be all for the latter. Yes a bit of DPS increase would be nice, but SE should double down on support. Why not just lock our support to overheating? Make it that we dispense a Party wide buff while we are overheated. Heck, link it to whatever skill is used to overheat. Like:

Overheating with Hot Shot: Increase Group DPS by XX% for the duration of overheat
Overheating with Spread Shot:Remove the DPS reduction for multiple targets from all skills of the group
Overheating with a normal shot: Group wide, substantial Haste effect

Probably need to put a refractory debuff on the support stuff, otherwise people would just constantly overheating... but just something that would make OH more than just "3rd WF, gonna do it!". Failing that just link some buffs to our Turrets when we blow them up.

[SaintK]

Oh this again.

In that case any serious progression group should ONLY have a SAM/RDM/BRD/NIN. Sorry DRG/MCH/BLM/SMN/MNK, no Stormblood for you. Also progression for what exactly? Raids aren't out til tomorrow. Susano, Lakshmi, and Ex Roulettes are so hard, right?

Closed minded thinking aside, any serious progression group is gonna take whatever the hell works for them. I mean unless a terrible BRD is better than a skilled MCH or a RDM who barely knows the job is better than a BLM who knows their stuff 100% of the time.

The difference between the classes you mentioned and MCH and BRD is very different. Those "unwanted" classes you listed do comparable dps against every other dps except SAM (Because SAM is designed that way), whereas MCH brings much less utility and much less dps to a fight and has almost the exact same playstyle as BRD. BRD fullfills MCHs role much better and is behind in DPS massively.

[Shhikasan]

Oh I remember it very well. I remember all the "No MCH" PFs. I remember the fingerpointing from my own static/FC when it came to inability to clear things (which ironically was more on our MT's poor CD management/timing rather than any damage deficiencies MCH had then). . .

I also remember how when things changed, MCH was in high demand, but hard to find. I was one of perhaps two well geared endgame MCH at that time (and unfortunately the only capable, as the other was geared via paid clears) Call me petty, but it was nice to refuse the people who once tried to bar me from parties.

All that to say I'm not gonna suffer any "No MCH" nonsense right now, but if people want to overreact that way, I can wait. I remember what happened last time.

then you clearly have not seen the bigger picture The current MCH is FAR worst state then it was during HW early terrible days. Do not try to play it off.

[Fannah]

The difference between the classes you mentioned and MCH and BRD is very different. Those "unwanted" classes you listed do comparable dps against every other dps except SAM (Because SAM is designed that way), whereas MCH brings much less utility and much less dps to a fight and has almost the exact same playstyle as BRD. BRD fullfills MCHs role much better and is behind in DPS massively.

And you still don't get what ThirdChild_ZKI said --> nothing's mandatory for now, everything is way too easy anyway.

Serious people should actually be good enough to be aware of that. If they aren't and believe they have to get optimized to have a chance to succeed mean they are not that good after all. And if it's all about gaining one minute for a clear, just lol, better enjoy the class you play. It's not like BRD was going to change a run of 5minutes with the MCH. Only people who would enjoy to make the best timer record would have a good reason to be that optimized for the current content.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm saying.

If we're talking world first, cutting edge, speedrun comps, yes what you play matters. But seriously - and I'm calling all players out on this one - How many people are in world first-level groups? How many even care? Because seriously, if THAT is what matters, then like I said, if you're not playing SAM/RDM/BRD/NIN, you're wasting your time.

But such isn't the case, and it'll NEVER be the standard. Someone wants to arbitrarily bring a BRD over me as a MCH, purely for the job alone? Fine. I hope the BRD has the raid awareness I do, the reflexes I do, the ability to think on their feet, adapt, not panic, and perform as well as I do - good kit or not. Because if they can't. . . well, therein lies the humor. It's easy to look at the tools and judge the craftsman, but let's not act like people haven't done more with less before.

then you clearly have not seen the bigger picture The current MCH is FAR worst state then it was during HW early terrible days. Do not try to play it off.

I'm not playing anything off. However I have yet to find something I couldn't do in game so far, even with the problems MCH currently has. The problems I know will get fixed. The sky is not falling, and where MCH is now, I've been there before. I got nothing to worry about.

Instead of whining or complaining about where the job is now, I'm instead pushing to learn to work with it. You do the best you can with what you've got. Can I do what I did before? No. But if and when the inevitable fixes come, will I be in a better position? Hell yes. Can you say the same for someone who just bandwagons the "favored" job? Maybe, but maybe not.

[Meta-Flare]

I'm trying really hard to relearn (?) The class. The over heat mechanic is just so clunky. I don't claim to be amazing at the game so any help would be nice. Should I only overheat when I have wildfire? Is it a big loss if I don't always sync those? Also I'm not 70 yet, is flame thrower as clunky as it seems? Just from reading it it seems to be. Amd lastly, do you ever actually explode your turret?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm trying really hard to relearn (?) The class. The over heat mechanic is just so clunky. I don't claim to be amazing at the game so any help would be nice. Should I only overheat when I have wildfire? Is it a big loss if I don't always sync those? Also I'm not 70 yet, is flame thrower as clunky as it seems? Just from reading it it seems to be. Amd lastly, do you ever actually explode your turret?

Personally I Overheat for Wildfire, but only if I know I have Barrel Stabilizer or Flamethrower to help ramp myself back up to 50 heat. It works for me, so don't take that as me saying do it. Try it if you like, but if you find it's no good for you, don't do it. Flamethrower - according to the patch notes just got a slight fix, but the potency/usefulness is still in question. And currently Turret Overload just doesn't seem terribly useful.

[Meta-Flare]

Personally I Overheat for Wildfire, but only if I know I have Barrel Stabilizer or Flamethrower to help ramp myself back up to 50 heat. It works for me, so don't take that as me saying do it. Try it if you like, but if you find it's no good for you, don't do it. Flamethrower - according to the patch notes just got a slight fix, but the potency/usefulness is still in question. And currently Turret Overload just doesn't seem terribly useful.

Thanks. Kinda what I was thinking would be "optimal." I was also thinking of trying over heat with a wild fire at the start... Then ramp right back up to overheat asap amd then pop barrel to get back to 50 and pop heated shots. Try to front load as much as possible. Then go to a "normal rotation" of trying to sync them. It sounds kinda ok but I haven't tried it yet obviously since I'm not 70. What do you think?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I personally wouldn't push Overheating so much, rather sustain above 50 but below 100 heat values until your tools/CDs line up properly then push into it and make full use of it, especially because you'll have to suffer the damage penalty after. Without the full 70 kit, or at least Barrel Stabilizer however, this is much more difficult and should be kept to a minimum. If anything, sustained heat management is higher priority than Overheat bursts (currently)