1.20 Ease of crafting

[Estellios]

On paper, Crafting is for the most part excellent now. Doing a few leves gives you enough materials to make several pieces of gear and materials for everything is actually sold in the wards now, so it doesn't take me half a day to make something for someone when they need it. The parts system really had to go and was a step into making more people interested in crafting. Materia is another step and the future dying plans would be a 3rd.

The largest hurdle right now is how absurdly slow and boring crafts are to level. Something quest-based like Kiote said would work. I've toyed around with some system that rewards you greatly xp-wise for making gear that's low in stock in the wards (Market Ward Levequests? haha). As it is now as I level new crafts I make multiple items when i make something for myself and sell the excess so everyone can benefit. I know quite a few people that really do want to craft but the leveling up process is a nightmare, so if it's changed more people would get into it and it would help the economy greatly.

[smokymcweed]

waaa waaa waaa waaa yoshi is on the right track old crafting system is tedious lame boring and just plain stupid

[Physic]

waaa waaa waaa waaa yoshi is on the right track old crafting system is tedious lame boring and just plain stupid

problem is so far, it has only got more boring and less rewarding.

you used to be able to get a range of 800-1000 exp for the hardest synth, now you get 700. the actual success rate is so guaranteed as to make all skill use not matter for most items that net 500 exp.

Maybe his long term craft plans make sense, but what we have no is basically an afk sport.

Crafting is pretty gratifying when making gear people need, but the leveling process is complete foolishness right now.

The game needs to be more complex, and reward skillfull play, OR it needs to be completely automated. Another option as some one suggested is make it very quest based.

An idea i would have liked to see, is a recipe book added, with some quests to unlock recipes (and give exp) bonus exp for any new recipe, (and it gets added to the book which keeps a record of getting the recipe, completing the synth once, and HQing it each one would give some sort of exp)

add to that i would make the mini game itself reward more exp or items based on how well it was completed.

anyhow crafting now needs a lot of work it has slowly become almost pointless to do regular synths while paying attention.

[Mirh]

Personally, I think the current UI system needs to be scrapped. I really liked the "parts" as well. I felt they gave alot of depth to crafting and offered an affordable way to skill up. It was ok to simplify the crafting recipes in a sense, but what Yoshida did went way to far and made synthing hollow.

What we really need is an engaging mini-game that cannot be won by simply spamming the enter button. Players should have to think about what they are doing and making finished items SHOULD take extra time. But when it comes to gaining XP players should not be grinding on crafts to begin with.

Leveling crafting should be far more quest based than the current system allows. Other systems like retainers could be incorporated as well to create a system where selling your wares nets you experience. Something to the effect of the GC supply system but for crafter XP would be good too. It would only require the implementation of a system where the game recognizes that you created the item to prevent buying XP.

Crafters are supposed to be merchants as well, or at least thats how it has been described since the beginning of the game. We could also use a system of trading between merchants to earn XP.

User speaks to Merchant. Merchant requests item and provided investment capitol. User must obtain item under budget. Uses Parley on other merchants. Gets items under budget. Difference between budget and cost is converted to xp.

I would really like to see leveling crafting expand beyond it's current form. What we have now should be focused on making items that are intended for use. There is not reason for us to endlessly grind on a single item when there are a plethora of other ways we could incorporate to gain xp.

@Kiote! Your ideas are incredible and definitely a breath of fresh air.

Some people have gone to the extent of suggesting that the world should have quests such as repairing buildings/bridges, trinkets for NPCs, and so on. Really, there's so many possibilities to make crafting intriguing and draw even the most casual player in, but it would seem that none of these amazing ideas and scenarios such as yours are getting through to Yoshida, who continues to pump up players on the concept of things being as simple as possible to combat a current system of mindlessness.

@Physic Excellent point, as always, it seems.

As much as I disagree with Yoshida's clamoring to please the most religiously attention-deficit players, I'm sure his big picture plans in the end will be "quite good" for a simple reason, albeit not exactly more than a hunch: Gear and leveling crafting right now blows, but in 1.20 it supposed to be PLEASE LOOK FORWARD TO IT™ material.

What I mean here is, okay, take Goldsmithing. Dated gear is complete rubbish but is the most efficient to level on. Goldsmithing is getting a nice booster shot/revision in 1.20, just like gear, recipes, and so on. Until 1.20 happens, though, the current players (Who Yoshida seems to care most about, for good reason) are left hanging with, essentially, the scraps and remains of a dead era that Yoshida wants to put behind him - which is why it's hard to get gear for a reasonable price, for example.

To put it short and sweetly, the fact that it's agonizing now makes it seem like there are big plans for crafting, since Yoshida's track record so far is leaving large gaps of missing content and place value where, eventually something nice will come in a year or two (See: Leveling 1-50 super fast and feeling hollow and unearned).

Crafting itself was supposed to be something you had fun with. People want it automated because they're sick of dealing with idiotic systems that confuse them because the systems don't properly work. Making it complex, can also be making it fun. As much as I want masochistic, it doesn't have to be masochistic to require thought and be fun.

There are so may ways to do this besides making it automated but there's just not enough outcry for it. It's crazy.

I really do like the idea of the minigame simply rewarding more XP. Obviously not scaled to the sense of how Hasty Hand rewards you in comparison to a full synth, but I think that would be a nice medium. Being lazy isn't something the Japanese usually seemed to reward in their games, so it's insane to seem them playing ant farm with the Westerners in this regard to crafting.

[Mirh]

waaa waaa waaa waaa yoshi is on the right track old crafting system is tedious lame boring and just plain stupid

I love it when people's answer to a bad design is to wipe it completely. If that were the standard, a lot of people wouldn't be born since they weren't conceived the first try. Just a thought!

[Mirh]

After a bit of thought, I've come to terms with the automatic crafting system. The truth is, the current system simply only makes sense for you to spam standard - As you're learning your trade, and anyone who is learning learns best through familiar repetition (You would not want to use careful or rapid if you're unfamiliar with the materials, just to say). More or less, the only way to make the current system work outside of HQing, is, indeed, automating it.

The only reasonable alternative to automating the "learning the trade" standard synthesis and having the attempt to HQ an item a menu-based minigame, would be to have the entire process in general something akin to a flash game, or something you'd play on a NDS, involving perhaps meters and timing and such.

So for some of us, let's hope they get really inspired and go the innovated route and have a fun minigame. For the rest, the proposed system in 1.20 is hard to contest. The idea of quests and such is still viable and would be fun.

[Jinko]

Crafters are supposed to be merchants as well, or at least thats how it has been described since the beginning of the game. We could also use a system of trading between merchants to earn XP.

Originally they might have been under Tanaka's lead, I feel Yoshi wants to just get rid of Crafting as a main class but can't do this for fear of the backlash it would create.

Tanaka has set him up good and proper lol.

My head is still spinning from the impact Materia has had on U/U gear, of course crafting classes couldn't care less about it.

[Kiote]

Personally, I will never come to terms with the Automated system. Implementing this would only serve to give every player every level 50 craft.

No one would sell anything because they could make there own stuff

Max level crafts would be simply a matter of paying enough gil to get the materials

There would be 0 sense of achievement in crafting, HQing would be meaningless because anyone could do it.

It would serve to effectively subvert any chance that crafting could regain it's status as a full fledged Class

It would likely lead to a restriction on the number of crafts a player could do

It would eliminate any chance that things such as treatises and guild support would return to bring depth back to the classes

Guild marks would no longer be used to improve your class but would serve only as a method of buying crystals

Honestly, I could go on and on about the problems that Automated crafting would cause for this game. Most importantly, it would Destroy any chance of the classes become fun to play, it would once again destabilize the economy and it would exacerbate the current problem where crafting only serves to drive people into doing something else besides playing the game (afk crafting)

[Jinko]

The current mini game doesn't stop us from all have lvl 50 crafts ya know.

The fact is that the time spent doing it stops most from wanting to invest that time, even with an autoated system there will be a big time sink in getting to level 50.

If it becomes such a problem maybe they would need to add a system similar to how FF11 allowed you only to excell in one crafting class, although I'm sure there are better ways to do this like specialising in one class.

The majority of sales will no doubt be in HQ items once the new system is added anyway and will still require a great deal of work.

[Airget]

If you make some synths automatic then the xp gains from them will be drastically reduced because of the reduced time to perform the synth as well as the reduced amount of variables done during said synth. As it stands now there are perhaps 8-10 variables of hitting standard to get to 100% maybe less maybe more based on what you are synthing and your luck. Also now everyone just spams enter all the time, for tougher synths I skillup on I do keep an eye on it and use Perfection and wait when needed waiting for the best time to attempt to complete the synth.l

But think about if you are Blacksmith 5 and trying to make iron ingots, if it's done automatically then perhaps you'll only have a 10-25% chance at success with a fail producing 25xp nd a success granting 100 xp. Now honestly think about it, would you rather have those synths be automatic with reduced xp gains or would you rather just keep it as it is where your xp gains per synth will range from 200-600 based on it's difficulty. While yes the gear synths would have the manuel crafting, it would just make it that much tougher to lv crafting to make it where parts are done automatically.

I've brought a few classes to 20 and I have become slightly burned out from it, so I'm taking my time, but I do believe that crafting should take this long to accomplish, the skill behind crafting is looking for the best synth and then preparing yourself properly for the long synth haul. The challenge itself comes from when you use what you've learned to produce gear for others and attempt to make HQ and such.

My highest craft is 37 CRP and I have takena break from it to level the other crafts since I am curious about the stories and at the same time interesting in trying to be a master of all trades, which is definitely a long process lol, but once I pull it off I"ll be rewarded with the ability to basically produce anything I'd like which imo is worth the grind we are faced with now.

It's all about patience, there's nothing wrong with the crafting system, it's just the fastest route to leveling is through the button spamming, or you can do guild leves which are "free" and grant additional xp when turned in.

The current mini game doesn't stop us from all have lvl 50 crafts ya know.

The fact is that the time spent doing it stops most from wanting to invest that time, even with an autoated system there will be a big time sink in getting to level 50.

If it becomes such a problem maybe they would need to add a system similar to how FF11 allowed you only to excell in one crafting class, although I'm sure there are better ways to do this like specialising in one class.

The majority of sales will no doubt be in HQ items once the new system is added anyway and will still require a great deal of work.

That is one thing I'd like to see in the future, is specialization, where perhaps you can take every class to whatever cap, but only that craft class is your specialized craft and you can only produce x items cause of it.

Or perhaps when the journal is introduced we can obtain "Encrypted Recipes" where basically you have to analyze and study the recipe until you get it right, however you can only have a certain amount of recipes "stored". You would have the freedom to get rid of some recipes but then you would have to start from scratch if you wish to relearn it. And it wouldn't be a process as easy as taking 10 synths to accomplish it would be more like a mystery sorta like.

Feather Blade? 0-25%
Wing Blade? 26-50%
Blade of Wind 51-75%
Hurricane Blade 76-99%
Blade of the Fallen Angel 100%

So basically the above would be one recipe concept, when you first recieve it you analyze it as something called the Feath Blade. it's synth recipe you percieve as a Cock Feather, iron ingot and maple lumber. After fiddling around with that recipe and learning from it you learn that perhaps the recipe is more complex then what you've been trying and decide to try Wildfowl Feather, Steel ingot and Oak lumber. Then you reach the 50% and are enlightened by another idea that's surfaced from the recipe, you learn that perhaps it isn't a wing but the wind element. From that point you add the tier 1 elemental wind stone, myhrtil ingot and mahagonu lumber. From there you are enlightened again and decide to synth witha higher tier wind elemental stone, colbat ingot and rosewood lumber.

Then finally after all that crafting and understanding of the recipe you learn the true design of the recipe which is "Blade of the Fallen Angel". Then of course the synth for that is something like tier 3 dark elemental, wind, and light elemental stone, a cobalt ingot empowered with the wind element and a rosewood lumber empowered with the dark element. From that point on you would be able to produce any of those items but the true reward is obtaining the knowledge to produce the "Blade of the Fallen Angel"

When it comes to said weapons:
Feather Blade? 0-25% 6 wind shards
Wing Blade? 26-50% 12 wind shard
Blade of Wind 51-75% 1 wind crystal
Hurricane Blade 76-99% 12 wind crystals
Blade of the Fallen Angel 100% 1 wind cluster

The crystals required to synth them would be quite high so it would be quite the adventure to try and rank them up however when it comes to the first 4 pieces, they don't produce materia but rather "knowledge" which can be used on the same recipe it came from to increase your knowledge rate of the recipe.

Though it would be limited by the recipe level so Feather Blade "materia" could only help you with the knowledge from 0-25% and so forth. In this essence crafters in linkshells could enlist the help of their comrades to break in and study the weapon in order to help them in learning the recipe as a whole rather then going through the process of always synthing the recipe for every % of knowledge.

When it comes to "Blade of the Fallen Angel" you would be able to turn it into a unique materia. So ya, just an idea that popped into my head when Is aw that but I think it could help with conceptualizing a specialization for crafting lol.