1.20 Ease of crafting

[Mirh]

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After a bit of thought, I've come to terms with the automatic crafting system. The truth is, the current system simply only makes sense for you to spam standard - As you're learning your trade, and anyone who is learning learns best through familiar repetition (You would not want to use careful or rapid if you're unfamiliar with the materials, just to say). More or less, the only way to make the current system work outside of HQing, is, indeed, automating it.

The only reasonable alternative to automating the "learning the trade" standard synthesis and having the attempt to HQ an item a menu-based minigame, would be to have the entire process in general something akin to a flash game, or something you'd play on a NDS, involving perhaps meters and timing and such.

So for some of us, let's hope they get really inspired and go the innovated route and have a fun minigame. For the rest, the proposed system in 1.20 is hard to contest. The idea of quests and such is still viable and would be fun.

Actually, the real inspiration to this is that Yoshida announced Flash being used in the addon system possibly. It's not too wild to hope for a neat little crafting minigame with the new engine's possibilities!
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I've whined in plenty of places about hating how easy things are to be, so I just wanted to know how people in general feel about something that feels, to me, like a middle grounds between automation of the system and burdening down the community with having to think and prepare for crafting an item and spending time on it.

It's a given that most people who play this game dislike failing crafts, and dislike mashing Enter. I don't recall at any given point the majority of people wanting to do away with the minigame on skill up synths, but it seems Yoshida's plans is to do this possibly, but leave it there for HQ crafting ("two seperate craft systems") rather than make the mini-game more intuition/skill-based/fun for regular crafting. I assume this is because the community wants it, as Yoshida really wants to make you happy.

I'm in the apparently microscopically small portion of players who liked the parts system (A cotton robe = cotton robe back, front, cotton sleeves, so it's something like 4-5 synths total, which is all skillup, some of which can be supplied by higher level crafters at a mutual benefit). And I also liked craft classes being 'real' classes, so they duked it out with their synth (a minigame) every time, since they can't really fight.

With that said,

Would it really bother players if parts (brass axe heads, etc), and mass production (fishing lures, yarn, etc) took on this "Press synth, recieve item" approach 1.20 may bring, yet finished items (Cotton Dalmatica, Super Guy Sword, etc) require the minigame even without HQ?

I'm aware it'd be counterintuitive, since 99% of players cut corners religiously, and would simply avoid making finished items as skillup if it means avoiding the mini-game (which seems to be seen as a horrible burden, even if S-E could fix it to require thought) so it's sort of just being asked here because I can't truly understand how people just absolutely want to craft crap effortlessly. I'd personally try to HQ every finished item, but it's not the same, IMO. Does everyone really want the crafting system to be an afterthought/very simple, like in every other MMO, except have longer animations with tools?

I personally was attracted to FFXIV due to the depth of the crafting system.

[Mirh]

My proposition more or less covers how I craft. If I want brass nuggets or something, I spam Hasty Hand like my life depended on it. But the massive batch of Dated brass rings I made to sell to the NPC (about 400-500 now, don't ask) were done by spamming enter.

In the ideal setup, Hasty Hand would be replaced by automation for my materials, but I'd have to battle it out with the synth system to make rings. Even professionals can mess up now and then, and that's what the people who dislike fails don't seem to get. it's part of being human, even if it's not "fun."

[Vexione]

I would appreciate a system where the mini-game was always relevant, regardless of the item being crafted, but if we are going to see an automated craft system introduced into this game then I would really enjoy your approach to it (really, great idea). FFXIV's more involved crafting was one of the bigger things that separated the game from being just another WoW clone to me, so I'm not a big fan of S-E abandoning their original ideas completely. Parts were cool, and I do wish they stuck around, even if they simply tweaked the system a bit.

As it is right now crafting is very boring.

[Jinko]

Oh noes wow clone /sarcasm, is that the best insult you can pull out of hat of tricks.

I would sooner have a WoW style click a button and have something pop out than sit and press enter 5-6 times to get the same result.

Remove this tedious mini game and you remove the need for bots, its quite simple.

I totally agree with the way Yoshi is going, I hope they make the HQ mini game more complex so that bots can't complete it.

{P.s.} there is nothing difficult about the crafting mini game the majority of it is based on luck and spamming enter.

[Sephrick]

Hopefully they touch on their plans for crafting come Thursday's live letter.

The parts system was annoying at best because of lack of participation. There were a lot of times I wanted to make an item but couldn't because of those one or two oddball ingredients like specifically colored pieces or those whose rank were higher than the item I was attempting to make.

I like the way it is now. It's easier to find ingredients. I'm really looking forward to an insta-synth option for NQ synths that will, hopefully, give normal exp unlike Hasty Hand. I already spend hours gating mats, the rate at which DoH classes gain exp makes me not want to level them.

[Mirh]

Oh noes wow clone /sarcasm, is that the best insult you can pull out of hat of tricks.

That's one of the most ignorant things I've read in a while. He has a valid concern. It doesn't really come off as a petty insult if you aren't a Blizzard fanboy.

I liked WoW enough and I still don't think FFXIV should be like WoW beyond the reliable controls/UI. It's not a crime to feel that way. A game doesn't have to be very WoW like in every essence to be fun. As a 4+ year WoW player, I'd like to return to the MMO genre without WoW at my heels, personally.

As for everything else you said: The minigame could be made less tedious by making player input matter and it could be made challenging. You're talking about the current system as if it's the only way it could exist, when in reality it could be reformulated, still exist even for basic synthesis, and still work great.

It's truly a shame people immediately dismiss the system because the first time wasn't good enough. But it's obvious most people just didn't want it to work.

Hopefully they touch on their plans for crafting come Thursday's live letter.
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Haven't even been keeping up with the letter system, I'll have to watch out for it.

I'd like to think the parts system was before it's time - literally, rather than figuratively. Maybe it would have worked if they had strictly sold gear from NPCs until people were high enough crafters, then release recipes. Of course this would bring its own issues, but it wouldn't have been such a bad implication.

The ingredient changes definitely seem to make more sense, at least.

[Sephrick]

I'd like to think the parts system was before it's time - literally, rather than figuratively. Maybe it would have worked if they had strictly sold gear from NPCs until people were high enough crafters, then release recipes. Of course this would bring its own issues, but it wouldn't have been such a bad implication.

It could have worked just fine if there was a natural progression to parts. Instead they inexplicably had it reversed and a rank 15 item required parts from multiple crafts ranging from the low 20s to mid 30s. It was just too complex too soon.

[Mirh]

The odd progression of the parts made great sense when you consider that it (realistically) takes more skill to make the parts than it does to sew them together, but I suppose it doesn't really matter since the way it was, you had little choice at the time but to be pissed at the fact you couldn't make said item, or make a lower level one until you got past that range.

So, yea, definitely.

I wasn't around during that time due to being one of the "this UI lag makes me want to rip my hair out bye" leavers, so I'm only able to really go by stories. as a GSM I didn't run into the problem, but.. GSM, right? heh.(Actually, I ran into the problem because I desperately, indescribly deeply, would have given anything for, a half-robe in the early days. When it became clear I was out of luck I tried to make one, only to run into the whole "you need 20+ weaver to make a lvl 8 craft" deal. But I'm incredibly picky about how I look in a game, and most players care more about stats, and the half-robe wasn't that good... full robe was obtainable through many ways, easier to make, etc..So frustraiting as it were, it wasn't offensive to me ultimately.)

[tymora]

I remember traveling the world as L7 CON to make my first robe on game release.
Took like 1 day+? Had to rank up everything to get all the parts done too.

[Kiote]

Personally, I think the current UI system needs to be scrapped. I really liked the "parts" as well. I felt they gave alot of depth to crafting and offered an affordable way to skill up. It was ok to simplify the crafting recipes in a sense, but what Yoshida did went way to far and made synthing hollow.

What we really need is an engaging mini-game that cannot be won by simply spamming the enter button. Players should have to think about what they are doing and making finished items SHOULD take extra time. But when it comes to gaining XP players should not be grinding on crafts to begin with.

Leveling crafting should be far more quest based than the current system allows. Other systems like retainers could be incorporated as well to create a system where selling your wares nets you experience. Something to the effect of the GC supply system but for crafter XP would be good too. It would only require the implementation of a system where the game recognizes that you created the item to prevent buying XP.

Crafters are supposed to be merchants as well, or at least thats how it has been described since the beginning of the game. We could also use a system of trading between merchants to earn XP.

User speaks to Merchant. Merchant requests item and provided investment capitol. User must obtain item under budget. Uses Parley on other merchants. Gets items under budget. Difference between budget and cost is converted to xp.

I would really like to see leveling crafting expand beyond it's current form. What we have now should be focused on making items that are intended for use. There is not reason for us to endlessly grind on a single item when there are a plethora of other ways we could incorporate to gain xp.