Warrior and paying for skills the other two use for free, among other thoughts

[Ryahask]

I can't test it right now but I'm quite sure last time I tested foresight against lv 60 field mobs it was roughly 10% mitigation. I never said overall rampart would outweigh all the nerfs we'll get, but I feel that you're understating the usefulness of having another mitigation cd that works for magic damage. Considering the encounter designs we've seen, with huge infrequent damage spikes, we'll have a really good mitigation toolkit outside tank stance with rampart and raw intuition at 90s cd, vengeance and thrill at 120s cd, and holmgang at 180s cd.

I can't really disagree, Rampart is going to be a nice addition and WAR will have a great deal for mitigation in Deliverance. Rampart is in no way a negative addition, it's just a bit soured by the things we're losing. I certainly won't turn my nose up at it though.

[Lyth]

To put it into perspective, when you factor out role actions (which are universal):

Self-Healing:
PLD: Clemency
WAR: Equilibrium

Raid Mitigation:
PLD: DV, Passage of Arms

Resource-Based Mitigation:
PLD: Sheltron, Intervention
WAR: Inner Beast
DRK: TBN, DM

Free Mitigation:
90s Recast:
WAR: Raw Intuition

120s Recast:
PLD: Cover
WAR: ToB, Vengeance

180s Recast:
PLD: Sentinel, Bulwark
WAR: Holmgang
DRK: Shadow Wall

500s Recast:
DRK: Living Dead

720s Recast:
PLD: Hallowed Ground

WAR has the largest free mitigation kit. Recasts are lower, cooldowns are generally more powerful. The flip side is that resource-based mitigation is more expensive on WAR than it is on other tanks. I think the idea is that if you manage your recasts correctly, mitigation is cheaper than other tanks, but if you have to rely on your IB safety net, then you get punished harder for it. IB has been buffed in relative potency, though, presumably to keep the disparity in dps in check.

DRK is on the other end of the spectrum, with next to no free mitigation, but a very powerful resource based mitigation move in TBN. The focus is on resource management and precisely gauging when damage spikes occur, rather than recast timers.

[Marxam]

The whole point is storm's path is your dps combo, storm's eye is your utility combo and BB is your aggro combo. You're meant to only use storm's eye to keep your damage up buff on, path is the one you spam thanks to extra beast gauge and BB is only if you need enmity.

I'm sure you are not aware but BB combo has always been WAR's dps combo AND enmity combo at 280 potency compared to Storm's Path 250 potency. Why do you think WAR's always rip hate in their dps stance? It's because they are using the BB combo. However, I honestly see no wrong in having all 3 combos give 30 gauge respectively. Is there a reason you only want to get 20 gauge for maintaining slashing debuff, dmg buff and enmity when you can do both and gain 30 gauge respectively instead? More gauge building is only a good thing.

I'm also sure you are aware that we lost bloodbath, well all tanks lost bloodbath but I can see how OP it will be given the amount of aoe dmg all tanks have and especially for WAR. So people will spam SP combo if they want to. I just don't want to to miss out on extra gauge just because I'm trying to keep my buff/slashing up or trying to gain enmity.

Btw WAR has always had two utility combos, one for self healing and one for slashing debuff and only one dps/enmity combo. Storm's Path was never a dps combo and was only used for a small self heal and it's dmg debuff which is gone in 4.0.

[aleph_null]

With 10 extra gauge path is actually better dps wise than block combo, since the potency loss (40) is less than the potential value of the gauge: 10 gauge is half of upheaval (300/2 = 150 potency) or a fifth of fell cleave (but since fell cleave consumes 1 gcd, we need to substract the average gcd potency of a war, which is around 200-250, so that's 50-60 potency). So yeah, as it currently stands path will be a major part of our dps rotation later in 4.0.

Making block combo generate as much gauge would just bait new/bad wars to spam it without regards to the other tank's enmity lead. Even now you see enough bad wars who spam block combo against good pld/drk and rip aggro.

[YitharV2]

Necroing

[vigioX-Sun]

Block an path should give 20 rage, an now with shirk that could be use as a window for some DPS gain using butcher as OT, not only that the gauge fill way too slow as MT too making the game play slower an dull, forcing us to use Path only is not a good idea we should be allow to rotate depending our position as OT/MT.

[aqskerorokero]

Not everybody seems to know that all 3 tanks now bring out their max potential when played defensively, and for the record you are still doing damage, if you loose aggro because not using aggro combo is tank's fault. A good tank play all 3 jobs, and if you guys are worried about paladin's max dps number, know that to output that number pld has to stand still while doing holy spirit, and in a real fight as tank you have to move, the mindset of always max dpsing is bad even for pld, tanking is the job, using a dummy to judge a job's value is stupid. Don't be a blue icon dps

[Atreides]

Not everybody seems to know that all 3 tanks now bring out their max potential when played defensively, and for the record you are still doing damage, if you loose aggro because not using aggro combo is tank's fault. A good tank play all 3 jobs, and if you guys are worried about paladin's max dps number, know that to output that number pld has to stand still while doing holy spirit, and in a real fight as tank you have to move, the mindset of always max dpsing is bad even for pld, tanking is the job, using a dummy to judge a job's value is stupid. Don't be a blue icon dps

Uh no in a real fight a PLD can go all out 90% of the time and go crazy with his DPS he doesn't have to move more than any other DPS.
We'll see if it changes with Omega but as of now the handicaps you mentioned are a minor issue.

[P4X0R10N]

At ultimate calibur, dude you know the cc immunity is required for inner release to work right? Imagine getting stunned or knocked back when casting as a paladin.

[ovIm]

...and in a real fight as tank you have to move...

I respectfully disagree. As a tank, your main job is to stand as still as possible as to not make hitting positionals difficult. The less you move the better a tank you are. Also, the big challenge is always to use your kit to the fullest while still performing mechanics.