The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.

[DrekeLamorte]

Bingo.

Of course, despite the clarity of that advice... you will still get folks in the community giving any variation on the following statement:

"Well yeah, I could do all that, but that sounds like work, and this is a game and games are supposed to be fun. I don't play games to watch raid boss animations. I play to relax and unwind. Having to pay attention to what a raid boss is doing and then react is too stressful and not fun. It's unreasonable to expect players to do all that when all they want to do is have some fun in a video game. It would be much more reasonable, and fair to everybody, if SE just made the fight easier so more people could do it and not have to worry about all that. The gaming community is dominated by casual gamers and hardcore fights like that are for elitists, which are not what MMOs are about anymore. Elitists who want that need to go back to EQ and let people who aren't stuck in the past with archaic gameplay systems enjoy modern MMOs the way they're supposed to be. And I know that I'm right and speak for everybody because everybody obviously thinks the same way I do. If they don't think the way I do then they're elitists stuck in the early 2000s."

I'm pretty sure I covered every major argument for dumbing down content, on any forum, on any site, for any MMORPG in that paragraph... Someone let me know if I missed any...

This is brilliant. It's a shame those of whom this references will never understand the fault with this mentality, or recognize that this is indeed their ideals. They will fight, kick, and scream about how right they are until something else comes out that they can move on to.

[Vanguard319]

We went with archers our first 15 runs on 10/04/11 and realized they were complete sh*t for this fight due to lightshot lockups and nerfed multihit buff damage. The experimentation has been done and confirmed. People didn't bring DRG or RNG in XI when they got heavily nerfed. It happens in every MMO. Content doesn't always cater to your class.

did your archers have any materia equipped? was thier gear up to date? The dev video of the battle shows an archer included in a well-balanced party. In short: the experimentation has NOT been confirmed, just an easy excuse for people who just want 6 lancers to zerg.

[Isaaru]

You do realize you just said some hypocritical things right? No? Maybe that's because of your responses being from your own perspective and slinging your canned responses.

You want to be able to do EVERYTHING in the game at any point in time no matter what, otherwise is exclusionary? Guess what kid. Get over it. Learning disabilities, physical handicap, mental fortitude. You should NOT be catered too. You play the game at the same level as everybody else, if you fail, you pick yourself up, discuss strategy, and dive back in like everyone else.

Quit thinking that you don't have to level up other classes to be effective at endgame content. You really don't understand this game at all if you think that you can get by on single class only skill-sets for the most challenging content thus far.

This.

and...

I think the fight is fine. There's a reason it's called (HARD). It's just a matter of getting people to do things right. Smaller group oriented material = smaller margin for error. Mix that up with the lag, and you've got an even smaller margin.

Your party members need to be on the ball. I have not beaten this fight yet. We've only had maybe 3 hours to work at it with my static.. Not that many attempts, really. We've seen heavy progression in the fight each time. We will get it. Only half of our party really has any 'raiding' experience, so we are really working to teach our friends how the fight works.

Welcome to 'raiding', where you throw yourself at something for at LEAST 10-20 attempts with a static until you and your hopefully skillful party have drilled the encounter into their head, and learn how it works.

This.

/thread

[Richard_BG]

did your archers have any materia equipped? was thier gear up to date? The dev video of the battle shows an archer included in a well-balanced party. In short: the experimentation has NOT been confirmed, just an easy excuse for people who just want 6 lancers to zerg.

first off the Dev video was a teaser, the fight wasn't even accurate as he didn't have as much HP as he does in the actual game, the ARC's multishot was not in nerfed mode and their composition was for pure kicks video footage. Just like the DZM teaser video of the Eye hitting everyone for 8k damage. It doesn't happen that way in the game.

And yes we had updated gear and yes we tried MULTIPLE archer strats. No amount of gear will fix the fact that ARCs cannot AA for TP without getting locked into animation (unlike LNC/MRD/PGL/GLA) so when you wrap your brain around that concept you'll realize that ARC will do nowhere near any other class.

[Vanguard319]

first off the Dev video was a teaser, the fight wasn't even accurate as he didn't have as much HP as he does in the actual game, the ARC's multishot was not in nerfed mode and their composition was for pure kicks video footage. Just like the DZM teaser video of the Eye hitting everyone for 8k damage. It doesn't happen that way in the game.

And yes we had updated gear and yes we tried MULTIPLE archer strats. No amount of gear will fix the fact that ARCs cannot AA for TP without getting locked into animation (unlike LNC/MRD/PGL/GLA) so when you wrap your brain around that concept you'll realize that ARC will do nowhere near any other class.

Whatever, I have materia that boosts both my str and attack power, raw damage doesn't mean squat in a game where you can CUSTOMIZE your gear for different playstyles. There are ways to overcome percieved weaknesses. You yourself also mentioned earlier that fighting Ifrit is easier when you pay attention to his actions ingame. That means, by your own wordsThere is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why you cannot have a gld tank, or an arc dd in your party and not win, when using such strategies. Again, you have pretty much proven how much you favor the zergling rush.

Also, ever heard of playtesting? the teaser may have been just that, but bear in mind that SE still had to make sure that the fight could be won using a variety of party setups. As I said the experimentation should continue.

P.S. Archer does not get locked into animation when Auto attacking, light shot is a manual attack, which justifies the lock somewhat. Arc's AA (the punch) moves the same as every other dow when in melee range. As for damage, arc can still put out excellent base damage compared to other DDs even without the buffs affecting a full multishot, and Bloodletter is STILL a pretty powerful DoT, not counting the 500 dmg done every time that it wears off.

[Rentahamster]

That means, by your own wordsThere is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why you cannot have a gld tank, or an arc dd in your party and not win, when using such strategies.

Also, by his own words, he never said you couldn't win. He said that archers aren't as useful as other classes in this particular fight.

[Richard_BG]

Also, by his own words, he never said you couldn't win. He said that archers aren't as useful as other classes in this particular fight.

this guy gets it

[Vanguard319]

Also, by his own words, he never said you couldn't win. He said that archers aren't as useful as other classes in this particular fight.

fair enough, but I don't think you read his argument well. He implied that archers were completely worthless in the fight because their main source of dealing damage locks them in place for a brief moment. When you consider that every other DD in the game also gets rooted temporarily whenever they use a weapon skill, (and they're going to use them often since it's the only way they can do huge damage in a short timeframe.) his argument is invalid.

Besides, I've offered to go as a gld (my only other 50 atm) and I still get turned down, despite again having excellent gear. Care to justify that excuse while you're at it?

[Richard_BG]

fair enough, but I don't think you read his argument well. He implied that archers were completely worthless in the fight because their main source of dealing damage locks them in place for a brief moment. When you consider that every other DD in the game also gets rooted temporarily whenever they use a weapon skill, (and they're going to use them often since it's the only way they can do huge damage in a short timeframe.) his argument is invalid.

Besides, I've offered to go as a gld (my only other 50 atm) and I still get turned down, despite again having excellent gear. Care to justify that excuse while you're at it?

Rooted in ws =! rooted in main source of TP gain. Apparently you didn't read my argument well either. What I implied was that ARC is no where near the efficiency in doing damage as a class that can use AA without getting locked.

Also for your consideration: we did our first Ifrit kill with a GLA and it works perfectly fine. It mitigates more damage than MRD for sure. MRD outputs x10 the amount of DPS while also mitigating a moderate amount of damage, just under GLA. If you have someone who wont invite you because you are x class and they want y class I suggest you man up, grow a pair and run with someone else. Welcome to MMOs. Classism will always be around because people want to beat stuff as efficiently and as fast as possible for loot.

[Rau]

fair enough, but I don't think you read his argument well. He implied that archers were completely worthless in the fight because their main source of dealing damage locks them in place for a brief moment. When you consider that every other DD in the game also gets rooted temporarily whenever they use a weapon skill, (and they're going to use them often since it's the only way they can do huge damage in a short timeframe.) his argument is invalid.

It's not even just weaponskills. ARC gets animation locked during Light Shot, which are used FAR more frequently than weapon skills, not to mention that they can barely keep up in raw numbers of other DD classes since 1.19.