The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.

[RemVye]

And we've never lost because of tanking. Also, if you re-read what I originally posted, I do have Cure II and Sac II. Most damage mitigation abilities come from Gladiator anyways.

I never said it isn't going to put a strain on the mages. However, strain on the mages does not make an ability REQUIRED. What is required is not getting yourself blown up.

I believe you were telling the OP that he could do whatever he wanted and not get the skills people were telling him are "required". You said:

It's all about knowing what your class is capable of without added abilities from other classes.

And you mentioned having CON to level 20, so I guess I was supposed to assume you were using CureII... anyway.

The point is you do have cross-class abilities at your disposal, and the OP doesn't want to get any. Zero. Zilch. None.

Also, Defender, Foresight, Featherfoot, at the very least are "essential".


If "you" the tank are getting blow up. You're doing something wrong. If your mages are getting blow up, it might be because you are needing extra healing and they have to choose between keeping you alive or moving. If your DD are getting blown up, they are not paying attention.

[Richard_BG]

We could literally take 7 people, re-roll alt's on Besaid, get 6 LNC and 1 CNJ to 50 w/ 36GLA sub via powerleveling and you STILL wouldn't have killed it before all this happened because you just keep sitting on the forums and complaining about it!

Get off the forums; get into the bowl of embers.

[DaPhro]

Also, Defender, Foresight, Featherfoot, at the very least are "essential".

the only skill you need is Dodge

[bird]

I heal during Ifrit in [ITEM=8032409]Solar Summer Halter[/ITEM] [ITEM=8051309]Solar Summer Tanga [/ITEM] and [ITEM=8013302]Unripened Pumpkin Head[/ITEM] That's how easy the fight is now lol

Tell the truth, princess. You /pose instead of /heal.

[Kallera]

We could literally take 7 people, re-roll alt's on Besaid, get 6 LNC and 1 CNJ to 50 w/ 36GLA sub via powerleveling and you STILL wouldn't have killed it before all this happened because you just keep sitting on the forums and complaining about it!

Get off the forums; get into the bowl of embers.

Ifrit has spoken!

[AngryNixon]

The only valid point is the first imo.

There is nothing wrong with hard content. There is nothing wrong with nearly unbeatable hard content (Not saying Ifrit qualifies for that title). There is something wrong with underlying game flaws that add to intended challenges by superimposing themselves onto the content. It makes the experience frustrating, not challenging.

Sure maybe the OP should do any of the things that he's been berated with throughout this thread. Maybe he should run with 6 LNC and 2 CNJ. Whatever, that's not the point. He can overcome the fight with enough time in, I'm sure of it. That won't make it more enjoyable because all the while they're battling Ifrit the technical problems will be there, like unwelcome guests, ruining the experience when they're succeeding and making the failures that much more certain.

Again, plenty of people are beating it and farming it eventually and some are even enjoying it. Not the point. Only by fixing the underlying problems can this content simply be challenging and to some like the OP apparently very challenging, and not also frustrating for no good reason. Much like Meatboy or Super Meatboy. Hard yes, poorly designed no.

Content should be hard because it's hard. Not because it's moderately kind of maybe involved but broken, which gives it the illusion of hard.

Thankfully SE knows about the technical end of it so there's really nothing to be done but either ignoring the game until it's fixed or playing it in spite of the issues and overcoming both the content and the technical failings to achieve success if you still care enough to do so.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Know why? Resentment.

People are going to resent bad game design, as well as the fact that the most "hardcore" of people ever managed to beat Ifrit. That kind of elitist game design does not really support community unity. Especially when the hardcore shells decide to rub it into everybody else's faces by running around flashing their fancy drops.

No. It's not fun when your party wipes because of the following:

1. The design of the battle fails to take into account player lag - both technical and human.
2. Ifrit is far too powerful for the regular Classes. Jobs might make it easier, but seriously man...take this crap into account for a change.
3. The battles require a lot of "high spec", both technical, gear-wise, and class-wise. This is incredibly exclusionary, and does not really lend a lot of positive atmosphere to the fight.
4. The fact that some party configurations, like 6x Lancers, 2x Con/Thm, have a higher chance of success than other configurations, is simply repeating the Dzemael Mistake. (Whoring of the Archer class, anyone?)
5. I respect Yoshi-P for wanting to bring back the challenging factors of the olden-days of MMOs, but this is the wrong way to do it with the new generation of MMOs. I don't like it when I waste an hour of my time dying to Ifrit every time because of lag, animation lock, etc.

Basically what I am trying to say is that these fights do not account for the CURRENT state of FFXIV, which is something I find to be very irritating and un-fun.

Anyway, I needed to rant a bit. I am an aspiring game designer myself, and I really can't stand bad game design. Simply put, Dzemael Darkhold and Ifrit are both examples of bad design that caters to an exclusive subset that loves to inflict insane amounts of self-torture.

I would prefer that Yoshi-P actually do one thing: Focus his game design of these encounters around the largest segment of the playerbase. Hardcore players that like insane challenges do not apply to that category, because they are statistically a minority - I am not saying Hardcore players should be ignored, just that they should not be used as a point of reference for designing these things.

To quote a popular internet meme:

WTF is this sh*t?

You said "I don't like it when I waste an hour of my time dying to Ifrit every time because of lag, animation lock, etc."

IT is very doable and it is a work in progress, be happy that we are getting content that can be done although lag kills me 90% of the time in the fight. If you can't beat it your party isn't good enough or you haven't figured out a way to counter the lag. Most people have and deal with it accordingly. You have to know when to TP attack and best places to stand. It is a coordination and routine fight.

[SilvertearRen]

The only valid point is the first imo.

There is nothing wrong with hard content. There is nothing wrong with nearly unbeatable hard content (Not saying Ifrit qualifies for that title). There is something wrong with underlying game flaws that add to intended challenges by superimposing themselves onto the content. It makes the experience frustrating, not challenging.

Sure maybe the OP should do any of the things that he's been berated with throughout this thread. Maybe he should run with 6 LNC and 2 CNJ. Whatever, that's not the point. He can overcome the fight with enough time in, I'm sure of it. That won't make it more enjoyable because all the while they're battling Ifrit the technical problems will be there, like unwelcome guests, ruining the experience when they're succeeding and making the failures that much more certain.

Again, plenty of people are beating it and farming it eventually and some are even enjoying it. Not the point. Only by fixing the underlying problems can this content simply be challenging and to some like the OP apparently very challenging, and not also frustrating for no good reason. Much like Meatboy or Super Meatboy. Hard yes, poorly designed no.

Content should be hard because it's hard. Not because it's moderately kind of maybe involved but broken, which gives it the illusion of hard.

Thankfully SE knows about the technical end of it so there's really nothing to be done but either ignoring the game until it's fixed or playing it in spite of the issues and overcoming both the content and the technical failings to achieve success if you still care enough to do so.

Well said! /applaud

[Orias]

Thanks. I'll share this with the people I run Ifrit with. It'll give me a better shot.

Question: About Radiant Plume, the way you mention it suggests there are some spots on the map that are "immune" to Radiant Plume. Can you clarify this for me?

It's kinda hard to explain, but I can try!

If the tank tanks against the wall where Ifrit is normally (so aggro him when you are behind him), the tank will be safe from plumes.

To the left of Ifrit, near the wall there is a spot safe from plumes. To the right of Ifrit, there is another spot safe from Plumes (you can identify where it is because there is a little rock on the ground).

As for the DD's like Lancer, MRD, and PUG, I think they are safe from plumes where they are (behind Ifrit). I am not certain though, as I do the fight either as a GLA or an ARC.

You might get hit the first few times from plumes, but you will soon be able to pick up where the appear and where they don't.

Hope that helped some!

[SilvertearRen]

It's kinda hard to explain, but I can try!

If the tank tanks against the wall where Ifrit is normally (so aggro him when you are behind him), the tank will be safe from plumes.

To the left of Ifrit, near the wall there is a spot safe from plumes. To the right of Ifrit, there is another spot safe from Plumes (you can identify where it is because there is a little rock on the ground).

As for the DD's like Lancer, MRD, and PUG, I think they are safe from plumes where they are (behind Ifrit). I am not certain though, as I do the fight either as a GLA or an ARC.

You might get hit the first few times from plumes, but you will soon be able to pick up where the appear and where they don't.

Hope that helped some!

For clarification's sake, can you somehow illustrate where the safe spots are for the tank, on a map of the Bowl of Embers? This would help as a resource for tanks learning the fight.

And no, you're not really safe from plumes behind Ifrit, I've been hit around there.