Tanks are fine (show your support so they don't change them)

[Zojha]

If tanks were fine, they'd suffer queues because of their raging popularity.

[Ghastly]

If tanks were fine, they'd suffer queues because of their raging popularity.

The real problem with queus
Is that they added 2 new dps classes. If we had blue mage tank no one would be complaining.

[Felis]

The real problem with queus
Is that they added 2 new dps classes. If we had blue mage tank no one would be complaining.

not really
The problem with queue is that tanks have responsibility.
It is easier to be a not so good DPS and not many say a thing (if there is no damage check), than a not so good tank.

Adding a blue mage tank will be like this:
day 1: oh, a new shiny job. Let's do it
week 2: I switch back to a DPS, too much responsibility.

[Gimorian401]

If tanks were fine, they'd suffer queues because of their raging popularity.

I agree and disagree with this. They changed tanks and how they work (please SE put it back to VIT being the only damage calculation for tanks) but many players just dont like tanking. Its a play style mostly. Tanks in MMOs have never been popular. WAR in HW was OP and was able to keep up with some of the DPS in Deliverance. We didnt see an over abundance of WAR cause of it.

[Kosmos992k]

I agree and disagree with this. They changed tanks and how they work (please SE put it back to VIT being the only damage calculation for tanks) but many players just dont like tanking. Its a play style mostly. Tanks in MMOs have never been popular. WAR in HW was OP and was able to keep up with some of the DPS in Deliverance. We didnt see an over abundance of WAR cause of it.

I agree with this, tanks are expected to know every dungeon, boss and trial, and failure on their part is highly visible. People invariably treat the Tank as the one who carries the can in a party when it comes to things not going well. The high expectations of tanks and the level of responsibility laid at their feet are the reasons fewer players want to tank than play damage dealer.

[FallenWings]

WAR in HW was OP and was able to keep up with some of the DPS in Deliverance. We didnt see an over abundance of WAR cause of it.

I see this too much and it's frankly getting really annoying when people stretch out WARs DPS.

Good WARs kept up with Bad DPS.

A DPS at their peak or even moderate output is still in the realm of 20-40% more DPS than WAR and tanks overall. People always look at WARs parse after they throw out their huge burst and assume they'll stay at that range for the rest of the fight.

With us reverting back to pre 3.2 main stat weights, tanks as a whole are looking to be under 50% if even attempting to optimize and under 30% when "Tank" stancing(All in VIT accessories that is).

[Zojha]

I agree and disagree with this. They changed tanks and how they work (please SE put it back to VIT being the only damage calculation for tanks) but many players just dont like tanking. Its a play style mostly.

I don't think that matters - Fact is they aren't popular because people don't enjoy them as much.
WHY they don't enjoy them is irrelevant to that fact, whether it's because they're weak or whether it's because they're tanks as such or whether it's because of their visuals, whether it's because of failure visibility or whathaveyou. It can have many reasons and most of them aren't mutually exclusive - but fact is if tanks were fine, they'd be popular.

[Arrius]

I don't think that matters - Fact is they aren't popular because people don't enjoy them as much.
WHY they don't enjoy them is irrelevant to that fact, whether it's because they're weak or whether it's because they're tanks as such or whether it's because of their visuals, whether it's because of failure visibility or whathaveyou. It can have many reasons and most of them aren't mutually exclusive - but fact is if tanks were fine, they'd be popular.

Tanks and healers will never be 'popular', as you require a certain mindset and awareness to play them efficiently.
But many just want to bring on the big numbers and don't care for anything else. They don't want to 'babysit' the group like tanks and healers need to, they just want to have their fun.
And they are the most impacted ones when players don't perform well on them, thus adding another layer of pressure on the said peeps to put them off those roles.

[Ferrasper]

Tanks and healers will never be 'popular', as you require a certain mindset and awareness to play them efficiently.
But many just want to bring on the big numbers and don't care for anything else. They don't want to 'babysit' the group like tanks and healers need to, they just want to have their fun.
And they are the most impacted ones when players don't perform well on them, thus adding another layer pressure on the said peeps to put them off those roles.

My problem is tank design. I don't like getting in the enemies face. If there was a ranged CC tank that had bindings or something to hold the enemy in place while I was at range, I would play it. As it currently stands, pure melee has no interest to me.

[Leigaon]

I'm sure we may see something change, I guess a lot of people are having aggro issues?

Not sure when that starts but maybe I need to jump into EX trials to find out. So far tanking to 70 I've yet to encounter aggro issues outside of DPS not doing things properly. Or my own personal screw ups.

The direction they're facing is a nice change, it just now needs some tweaking it seems. Problem is the ones who demand the change aren't giving any real good ideas to help enhance the game play, instead they're suggesting changes that revert it back to the good ol' days.

While these veteran tanks should be a great source for being able to see where the road is leading and how to deal with it, so far most of the adjustments I've seen (i'm sure there's a few good ones but they get lost in all the "They took my job!" rants) feel like old people who complaining "Well back in my day..."

Then the other side goes "Good job! Everything is good!"

Neither side wants to give in, so we're going to most likely end up either continue going down the road to destruction as the veterans say or we're going to rollback to the glory days. Either way you're going to loose tanks.

"We're loosing them now! People are quitting! Unhappy I say!" Yeah, this happens each expansion. Hell major patches, nothing new here.

Then again, I'm trying to learn not to just listen, but to try it out first. I did WAR to 70, no hate issues no tp issues that were consistent like others said.

Now I'm trying to level PLD because it was praised as being this glorified job. Maybe i need to get the new skills but I did one or two and so far it plays the same before the 60 - 70 skills. To me that's not /drool so much powa! that's "It gets a bit better down the road"

I think that's half the problem, people are listening and getting blind-sided by what others say and it gets in their heads as what they now believe for most things. Play it yourself and find out, but that can't be applied now because people have already gotten in their mind-set. Whether it's someone who went "Here's my 92 hour compiled analysis of <job>!" to "Hey guys, another video here to show you how you should play!" or they got a broken arm for stroking SE too much for each little detail praising them.

Lol in the end it's two piles of sh$t and the only difference is the smell.

Which side will win? Who knows, but much like other jobs, the two sides to the discussion won't come to a compromise and be too stubborn and one will win making it again something fun for some and horrible for others.