[SPOILER] Garlean Territory Treatments

[Anonymoose]

What do you think about this lore and how do you think SE may expand on this later in FF14 storyline especially once we enter Garlemald?

I'd like to see them one day. We can't fight the Garleans forever; the Ascians want a steady and predictable escalation of conflict - each side striving for more power, in balance, until Calamity (rather than Flood). If we're to beat them, this war needs to end.

Of course, that's assuming we can't trust Elidibus and unity with the Dark isn't just fine. He didn't seem keen to elucidate what place we'd have once Zodiark and Hydaelyn were one again. Incidentally, in Japanese, he says "Of course." when Varis asks, but it isn't clear to me what he meant. Of course mortals would have a place? Of course that's he'd ask that? Of course he doesn't trust him? Didn't Eli already admit back in 2.1 that mortals would need to [hard pause] "change"?

I still don't buy it. This is how "He seemed so reasonable, but then it was too late!" villains act. Though, I didn't trust Aymeric, either (hair too nice, voice too smooth, wanted to give us too much), and he's our bff now. Maybe I'm just a bad judge of fictional character.

Even Gaius wasn't what I could call a truly bad person, as he mostly just wanted to dispel the primal threat, and you learn in a sidequest that he was openly opposed to the development of a chemical super weapon.

It felt like a balancing act to me.

This is the second time Gaius has been used to raise up another villain only for it to make him look sympathetic on the curve. The first was probably an accident; they needed Darnus to look like an increasingly-unstable lunatic, but it just made Gaius look reasonable while they kept him in reserve until ARR. Him suddenly becoming a powerful frenemy for a bit didn't help, either. We knew the sack and subjugation of Ala Mhigo were brutal, and of course the Resistance would declare him evil, but once the VIIth showed up, everyone commented about how the atmosphere changed ... basically to what we see life like under the XIIth here.

In Stormblood, it was the same. They wouldn't have anyone root for Zenos, so they made him completely unsympathetic. But the plot also demands that the people have been suffering for longer than Gaius has been dead. How do you show that he wasn't just as bad? Show him acting consistently with his stance on Project Meteor. Highlight that indiscriminate killing was abhorrent to him, that it mistreated subjects one was responsible for ruling and denied them their right to earn their place. It creates that sense of contrast.

The people of Ala Mhigo suffered under Zenos because he took pleasure in it and his legion reflected that. They suffered under Baelsar all the same, but because they were weak and resigned themselves to squalor rather than earn merit or die trying; they were a burden and they earned that place. (Ironic that he and Ilberd seem to have agreed on that point.)

I'd like to see a few of the legions that Gaius felt ruled justly; that exemplified the Empire he believed in (until it threw him under the doom train).

To allow myself a moment of self-indulgent musing...

This is a big part of why I feel that his death was thematically askew. He never never quite lived up to his own reputation. He instead ended up utilized to put the reputations of others in a more threatening context. Not only was he turned into Nael van Darnus's lapdog and an Ascian pawn, even as an (alleged) corpse he's being used as a narrative step-stool.

I can alllmost make it fit as an ironic tragedy about a man who only ever truly cared about his own legacy. He was desperate from failing at Silvertear, from being kicked around by Darnus, from the Emperor's looming death. The Black Wolf's bark was worse than his bite, leaning on Lahabrea rather than standing on his own. In the end even the invasion of Eorzea is credited both in its initial success and its eventual undermining to Varis and the Ivy. Except it's bookended by things that don't jive with it; with his military record or with how he acted during the Calamity. And then he wears the number XIV while having the least influence on his invasion and embracing death by explosion in a story whose theme is reborn from the ashes. Awkward.

Or maybe I'm just a badge judge of fictional character.

I don't think it's the devs' fault. Gaius was meant to be bad guy of a base game, they put him on hold and he died in his base game. So did the Archbishop. It's just that a series of unexpected developmental twists and turns just happened to compound in the big picture not looking right to this one lore-loving Lalafell especially.

Death should never be cheap; the dead should stay dead. Yet they've bent lore more for less when they felt there was something to gain. Even Nanamo "died" harder than standing surrounded by flames as the camera cuts, and surviving that was planned. It wouldn't be entirely unsound if his character arc had a few more degrees on it. Does that make it probable, or even advisable except under specific circumstances? Not by a long shot.

I suppose this is just my G'raha Tia Moment. <ribs Fenral>

Still, if you think that means I'm getting off the "He's probably dead, but I'm rooting for him anyway." train, you've got another think coming. It's been a running joke too long and I mean to see it through. The last best chance window doesn't close until at least 4.3! #BlackWolfLives

[Quor]

snip

Regarding your "merit to earn their place" remark Moose, I think you may have just figured out Fordola (if you hadn't already). Someone who was deadset on showing that Ala Mhigans weren't some backwards savage race, and willing to go to great lengths to prove it. She probably enlisted while Gaius reigned, and then once Zenos took over he saw a fun pawn to toy with, so he did. As such, she's a corruption of the nobility Gaius held, bent and eventually broken to the sadistic whims of Zenos.

As for Gaius and his death, I've long believed he's done and gone. But after the end-of-credits teaser I no longer believe that to be 100% true. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. White's reveal to Varis was associated with this.

[Fenral]

I was really pleased to see so much of the reading-between-the-lines subtext on Garlemald become canon with this expansion. It took a while, but they're writing their way to a place where the evil empire can start seeming more like an empire with some evil elements and not just evil personified. I can finally stop sounding like an apologist!

And now I'm left to my vain hopes for the planned Garlemald/Allag story arc. I mean, who could possibly provide the Allagan perspective for such a thing? There's not a single soul alive who rememb--*flinch*

I suppose this is just my G'raha Tia Moment. <ribs Fenral>

Agh, not in the ribs! (It feels good to let it out, doesn't it?)

Now to wait for Eureka, and whatever non-developments it may bring...

[VargasVermillion]

I was thinking about this the other day and aside from zeno's own cruelty I'd also point out that the treatment of different provinces would vary on the industries they provide, doma and ala mhigo both don't provide much that the garleans don't already have save for unique warrior castes who would more or less fall into the conscription category, the rest fall under menial labor and since the fruits of said labor again don't provide much to the empire they'd simply just leave it as a hole for those too poor or lack the skills required to move up the social ladder. If say limsa was annexed for example they would probably take advantage of the location and turn it into a resort location, possibly a trading hub or even use their knowledge of the seas to colonize new locations that the garleans haven't reached yet and can't devote airship resources to. Ul'dah could serve as a trade hub and provide some extra mines, including ceruleum ones. Ishgard and gridania would likely just fall into the same trap as ala mhigo/doma although gridania's healing arts may provide some additional medical techniques.