MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

[Sanic]

I really hope they change the lv66 trait to Tornado Kick mastery, make it that under different fists it will have different uses.

Fist of fire : Just a normal nuke that doesn't consume your GL stacks.

Fist of earth : Do half the damage and save your stacks upon recast you gain all of your stack back ( Longer CD )

Fist of wind : Tornado Kick is basically a ranged ability and refresh the duration of GL

In a way it fit the niche of each fists and is a big improvement over the thing that we have now, but alas we got Tackles

[Paolito]

I don't understand why they couldn't just give us a skill that can make us weave in Tornado Kick in our rotation without severely punishing us. I mean it's just 330 potency. Midare Setsugekka has 720 potency for crying out loud, granted it has a cast time but still. Samurai's build kenki which is like GL in a way where they can spend it with skills. Guren has 800 potency plus Shinten with 300 and they can do Shinten twice! They don't get punished for that when they use it and from my experience they Crit quite often too. Maybe the overall potency might be close but the Monks' new skills are just meh at best. I mean I get it that they want to have this burst damage window for monk with Riddle of Fire and Brotherhood but it's just not dependable damage raid wise if we're gonna rely on Crits to go off and then for it to proc a stack. Its RNG on RNG for crying out loud. I mean Deep Meditation and Brotherhood are great even though they're RNG based but the other skills are just unnecessary.

[edgefusion]

Serious question - the main reason for taking a monk with you now is to provide an occasional 5% buff to samurai, isn't it?

Just like in Heavensward there is no reason to take a Monk. Our personal DPS isn't enough, it's not even higher than other classes anymore, and our raid utility isn't enough either. They made it do less damage, be less useful and less fun to play.

[BlackBlitz]

Give Monk a skill to instantly reach GL3.

Make one ilm punch an aoe.

Give Monk a teleport skill for front, rear and flank.

[Guesswhat]

To me, Riddle of Fire and the RnG+Chakra things are the most annoying (slowdown + RNG = /cry).

What if:
RoF = +x% skill speed, +x% crit chance and every crit guarantees chakra stack. Or every GL grant action (snap punch etc.) guarantees chakra stack -like in PvP- to avoid RNG.
or
RoF makes all weaponskills grant GL + x% to damage, crit or speed (or all). Time to spam Tornado Kick.

EDIT:
I just realized how awesome my latter RoF suggestion would be. Imagine RoF (my version) + perfect balance + brotherhood. Bootshine + Tornado Kick + Forbidden Chakra spam ftw. Well... It depends on how long RoF will be active and TK cooldown.

[Blacktestament7]

Been playing MNK at 70 for a while now and it's just annoying to play at this point. Forget the damage dropoff, I just don't find the class fun to play considering the whole reason for the changes and nerfs were to support Forbidden Chakra spam and 9/10 neither deep meditation or brotherhood gives me enough chakra for even 1 more FC. That's just on top of how much I hate both Riddles.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Been playing MNK at 70 for a while now and it's just annoying to play at this point. Forget the damage dropoff, I just don't find the class fun to play considering the whole reason for the changes and nerfs were to support Forbidden Chakra spam and 9/10 neither deep meditation or brotherhood gives me enough chakra for even 1 more FC. That's just on top of how much I hate both Riddles.

Can agree to this, have done lakshmi and Susano farms for a while now at 70 on Monk. While Riddle of Earth actually has a use in Susano, it doesn't serve too much purpose in Lakshmi because the phase transition is so long.
Brotherhood is a poor man's trick attack and it should be a lot better than what it actually is. When it's good, it's good, but when it's bad it feel downright pointless and not even a buff for the monk. I've used brotherhood and got 2 chakras from it. But then on the other side i've sometimes got 2, maybe 3 forbidden chakras out of it. It's really disappointing that it's not a damage buff to the whole group akin to Nin's TA (Ninja's are actually in front of us in terms of dps and raid dps they have a better damage buff to the whole group). I just really hate the RNG aspect that's become of Monk's deep meditation and Brotherhood. Why does our max potential dps have to hinder on lucky crits and weaponskill rng from other melee users.

I just find it really stupid, they finally fixed our tp issues and make skillspeed viable this expansion and could have focused even more on Monk's main aspect of hitting fast and not hard while having 2 burst moves, Tornado Kick which is a massive sacrifice in the long run unless phase transition and TFC. But nope instead they wanted us to have a screwed up mix of fast and slow gameplay every 90s to be able to hit like a dragoon. I don't even understand what they wanted to do with Monk this expansion everything just contradicts itself Why could our GL3 refresh not come from expanding on our chakra system which was average at best in Heavensward. Purification was so niche and only ever good in intense aoe situations. Other than that it was TFC all day every day.

Seeing what other jobs got this expansion just feels like heavensward all over again. Monk got stuff that merely helped their previous problems instead of just being reworked while other jobs got new meaningful changes to their job and further added to the aesthetic of the job. Dragoon becoming more centralized around dragons, Ninja's getting more ninja-y things what did Monk's get? RNG bullshit, not just one one skill either. But on TWO. Did we really need 2 forms of RNG? (brotherhood and deep meditation)

Honestly RNG on top of the slowed pace of monk due to riddle of fire and the pointless tackle mastery trait just really disappoints me as a main monk for almost 4 years now. Sure one bad trait or niche skill is expected but 3!? c'mon SE pull it together, we were the only DPS job that didn't get a single new attack and only got traits and buffs. Riddle buffs are the most disappointing shit because there's a downside to them. Come out of FoF or attack at the speed of a snail. Pick your poison. 'Greased Lightning', yeah right. I'm certainly not fast like lightning anymore lol. I'm not even going to count tackle mastery as anything. It's just crap. Worst thing we ever got, even worse than the RNGness of our job now. I loved the aesthetic of Monk in ARR and I still played it for all of HW even with the deleteMNK meme around, but 4.0 Monk just feel like the final nail in the coffin for me. The job just contradicts itself everywhere and isn't fun anymore

[Abel_X]

I'll add my voice to the choir in hopes that the developers actually read this thread and fix the class.

I have been a Monk main since the beginning of ARR raiding and clearing pre-echo. Before I knew or cared about DPS, party utility, etc. I was just looking for the most fun class to play. The high skill speed you get from GL3 and the positionals that require a lot of movement and reward you for actually hitting them were my biggest draws to the class. It has been a travesty watching this powerhouse of a class get nuked into oblivion and irrelevancy. It seems since Heavensward every update they make these massive phase changes in the fight longer and more frequent to the point where no amount of ingenuity will allow you to keep GL3. I took a couple month break from the game the last two Alex raid tiers b/c IDGAF about fighting giant gobbie robots. I was however super excited for this expansion.

Monk was all over the expansion advertising. The Main NPC is a monk. We are in the Monk homeland. We even get a Monk dungeon. I really thought this would be the #MakeMonkGreatAgain expansion. Instead they nerf the class into Oblivion. I spent three hours this morning farming Lakshimi Ex and seriously wtf.

Riddle of Fire feels like you're punching through molasses. Who thought it would be a good idea to create a move that slows our SS down when we are a class built from the ground up on SS? number crunchers already debating whether it's even worth it.
Brotherhood, oh boy Monk Utility! Except the massive FC damage nerf kills our raw dps even if you get optimal RNG on chakras. The effect on raid damage isn't looking to promising compared to TA or Battle Litany too.
Riddle of Earth, ugh I though the point of this move was to help us keep stacks during these massive phase changes baked into nearly every fight these days. NOPE. If you you PERFECTLY time taking damage at 1 sec left on GL3 you still only get an extra 15 secs of GL3. Not nearly long enough. Even on smaller transitions it needs to refresh our form timer too in case you're doing mechanics and can't form shift ex. Lakshimi confusion.
True North Ii thought would be incredibly useful until I saw the 150s recast. Seriously just wtf. There are so many times we need to stack for AoEs, or to bait, or to fight an add head on that timer is ridiculous.
Yay we have invigorate and purify now but no TP problems LUL.
Tornado Kick STILL A JOKE
To top it off even if the Role actions are functional inside Raid, EVERY melee class can do them, so why would you take silly nerfed monk? And it freakin pains me to say that. And forgetting about the numbers I had to ask myself this morning is this class even fun anymore. If feels like every major fight in this game is designed to screw over Monk. I totally understand the #deletemonk meme now.

I know it's still early, but first impressions are everything and right now it is ugly. I am super disappointed. For the Stormblood story to be so so good while my favorite class gets rekt has me feeling some type of way. Not to mention this asinine FFLogs wave taking over the endgame scene. The next three months will determine if I just sub for one month whenever there is new story content, get rid of my extra retainers and just go super casual. And that would be a shame because this expansion has also brought some of the best designed and most spectacular fights we've seen. Also congratulation Square. You've brought a 3 year lurker out the shadows. Achievement Unlocked I guess.

PS: 1000 character limit is BS

[KingFrost]

Tackle Mastery needs everything changed about it.

First, either Riddle usage resets Shoulder Tackle.

Fire Tackle: 200 Potency. No stun. Simple, effective, and suits the Fist.

Wind Tackle: Does no damage, but the recast on Shoulder Tackle becomes 5 seconds. Basically this would be Riddle of Winds new effect. It suits the Fist of Wind's motif of mobility and speed (Also FoW should give some sort of SkS bonus and perhaps a small flat crit chance buff. Have it = FoF's DPS on auto attack and GCD, but obviously weaker due to ability usage overall).

Earth Tackle: Edit: I initially wanted a minute long DoT, but you know what would be better? A bind that's not broken by damage. Very niche, but irreplaceably strong when needed, much like One-Ilm Punch (More on this later).

These changes give us options. Offensively, mobility wise,

Other stuff:

Riddle of Earth: Maybe should reset stacks upon use as well as being hit.

Tornado Kick: Just needs a longer recast and only eat one stack of GL.

One-Ilm Punch: Can be used in any form and doesn't break combos (Reliable, instant stun. It could do 10 pot at this point, lol).

Really just give everything a functional purpose. Have skills be niche in use, not so rare it becomes bloat on the screen.

[TheRedMage]

I agree with a lot of things that has been said in this thread. Problem with MNK 4.0 is that it feels like I've regressed instead of progressed at lvl 70. I wish the new skills would be tied to the chakra system. Like have one skill that costs two chakras or three and one that only costs one. Kinda like Hakumens magatama from Blazblue.

We lost ToD, Fracture and Blood for Blood and got Brotherhood and Riddle of Fire. Riddle of Fire is a slightly better BfB substitution and Brotherhood is either almost useless or decent depending on team setup. And lets not get started about the RNG for chakra. I've seriously gone entire Brotherhoods (with 4 team mates with physical attacks) and Internal Releases and not gotten a single Chakra. I rather have chakras automatically add one after every 5 seconds or as someone else said, after every Coeurl attack.