Is house selling okay?

[JunseiKei]

I'm on the ever over populated balmung with login problems, erp and the ever present housing crisis, so of course the pf pops up now and then with people looking to buy or sell a house and I was just wondering what the official stance was on this practice since I know there has been some drama regarding people selling houses. Is it okay? Does it break ToS? Under certain conditions?

ThanKS in advance for any insight.

House selling violates the ToS under fraud. A player cannot guarantee the sale of the item in question to another player.
House flipping is also a violation to the ToS.

The short: If you're doing anything other than buying a house under the intended mechanic, it's a violation.

[LineageRazor]

The short: If you're doing anything other than buying a house under the intended mechanic, it's a violation.

You sabotaged your point with your own link. XD

In the original post of the thread you linked, Yoshi P is quoted as saying

In terms of people who are reselling, like giving up their home and then trying to sell it off for an enormous amount of gil, that sort of reselling of housing is a no-go. We do not stand for that.

When you do see a player that is obviously utilizing their housing to sell it off for a really high amount, and you do see in party finder, please let us know.

This very much implies that if a player is NOT selling for an enormous amount of gil, then the sale is perfectly legit.

This contradicts your claim that any form of sale other than "under the intended mechanic" is a violation. It's clearly not a violation, or Yoshi P wouldn't have been waffling about high prices. He would have just said "don't do it".

Basically, anyone that wants to sell a plot of land for the price they bought the plot of land for is perfectly free to do so. SE wants to crack down primarily on people (RMT, in particular) who buy up plots of land SOLELY for the purpose of selling those plots of land at a huge markup to make money without ever intending to build up the property for their own use. Their targets are NOT individuals who, for whatever reason, have a house that they just don't care to own anymore.

[JunseiKei]

You sabotaged your point with your own link. XD

In the original post of the thread you linked, Yoshi P is quoted as saying

This very much implies that if a player is NOT selling for an enormous amount of gil, then the sale is perfectly legit.

This contradicts your claim that any form of sale other than "under the intended mechanic" is a violation. It's clearly not a violation, or Yoshi P wouldn't have been waffling about high prices. He would have just said "don't do it".

Basically, anyone that wants to sell a plot of land for the price they bought the plot of land for is perfectly free to do so. SE wants to crack down primarily on people (RMT, in particular) who buy up plots of land SOLELY for the purpose of selling those plots of land at a huge markup to make money without ever intending to build up the property for their own use. Their targets are NOT individuals who, for whatever reason, have a house that they just don't care to own anymore.

It's such an ambiguous statement. To me, asking for the same cost of the house is an enormous amount of gil. I don't know a world where even 100,000 is ever considered a small amount, let alone anything higher. If people are so eager to make back the gil they spent on the house, just don't enter it for 45 days. You get 80% of what you paid and you avoid ripping someone off (3m price tag VS 6m+ price tag for the same plot).

What you guys are doing, though, is stating amounts that were not even said by the staff. Enormous amount of gil can be any amount they determine, not players.

[Hamada]

It's such an ambiguous statement. To me, asking for the same cost of the house is an enormous amount of gil. I don't know a world where even 100,000 is ever considered a small amount, let alone anything higher. If people are so eager to make back the gil they spent on the house, just don't enter it for 45 days. You get 80% of what you paid and you avoid ripping someone off (3m price tag VS 6m+ price tag for the same plot).

I thought be understood relative to the base price (the price SE gives) I take it you never seen crafter mains that have cap gil on 2+ retainers? See my above post what a large amount is and what that comment came from, people where trying to sell houses at that large amounts.

[MomomiMomi]

It's such an ambiguous statement. To me, asking for the same cost of the house is an enormous amount of gil. I don't know a world where even 100,000 is ever considered a small amount, let alone anything higher. If people are so eager to make back the gil they spent on the house, just don't enter it for 45 days. You get 80% of what you paid and you avoid ripping someone off (3m price tag VS 6m+ price tag for the same plot).

What you guys are doing, though, is stating amounts that were not even said by the staff. Enormous amount of gil can be any amount they determine, not players.

But it implies that there is an amount that is acceptable.

[JunseiKei]

I thought be understood relative to the base price (the price SE gives) I take it you never seen crafter mains that have cap gil on 2+ retainers? See my above post what a large amount is and what that comment came from, people where trying to sell houses at that large amounts.

That was never stated. Like I said, the statement is vague and purposely so. Thank you, I have seen such crafter mains.

But it implies that there is an amount that is acceptable.

1 gil is still an amount.

[Hasrat]

But it implies that there is an amount that is acceptable.

Personal opinion, but I don't think it does. I think players just want to interpret it that way. To me, it just sounds like using hyperbole to make the point that players making a profit from selling housing plots is unacceptable, using a descriptive adjective to call greater attention to the point being made.

This all reads to me like taking some off the cuff statement as legally binding, just to feel like you've caught some special loophole.

[MomomiMomi]

Personal opinion, but I don't think it does. I think players just want to interpret it that way. To me, it just sounds like using hyperbole to make the point that players making a profit from selling housing plots is unacceptable, using a descriptive adjective to call greater attention to the point being made.

This all reads to me like taking some off the cuff statement as legally binding, just to feel like you've caught some special loophole.

Then why didn't he give the much simpler answer of "don't do it"?

And why do players continue to sell houses and not get punished for doing it?

I don't even have any personal desire to want it to be possible to sell them. That's just how it reads.

[Hasrat]

Then why didn't he give the much simpler answer of "don't do it"?

And why do players continue to sell houses and not get punished for doing it?

I don't even have any personal desire to want it to be possible to sell them. That's just how it reads.

I don't watch any of the vids or whatever, but maybe the guy just talks normally, rather than assuming all of his statements will be taken as official decrees to be followed to the letter?

As for lack of punishment, it doesn't fall under abuse or harassment, so probably it's a bit lower priority, in addition to mods also choosing to interpret it in their own way. I've had no mod interaction to date, so I don't know their policies, but it's entirely possible that not everything is enforced equally by all mods.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's such an ambiguous statement. To me, asking for the same cost of the house is an enormous amount of gil. I don't know a world where even 100,000 is ever considered a small amount, let alone anything higher. If people are so eager to make back the gil they spent on the house, just don't enter it for 45 days. You get 80% of what you paid and you avoid ripping someone off (3m price tag VS 6m+ price tag for the same plot).

What you guys are doing, though, is stating amounts that were not even said by the staff. Enormous amount of gil can be any amount they determine, not players.

You cannot apply real world dollar equivalents to a game. 100,000 gil is chump change in this game. I can make that in under five minutes just selling baby gear on the MB. Enormous amounts usually pertain to 40-50M, which is the general average small houses used to sell for. They've come down considerably, but will inevitably shoot back up once Shirogane sells out. At least on higher pop servers. It's those prices I imagine the devs dislike, not someone trying to break even or make a small profit on their investment.