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  1. #2381
    Player
    KedaseDerragar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Lho'ir Misata'lho
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 64
    (First-time poster, longtime Black Mage!)

    I feel like I should point out that it's actually not a bad thing to use an Umbral Heart on a Fire instead of a Fire IV. Umbral Hearts don't affect damage or cast time, they just nullify the MP multiplier imposed by Astral Fire; since Fire costs more MP than Fire IV, spending a heart on Fire actually saves you more MP! Most of the time this won't really matter, but at certain tiers, it can mean the difference between continuing to cast and having to wait for a tick. (This seemed to be the case with the eight-F4 opener for me at 60; I split them 2-3-3 instead of 3-3-2 to get the Fire into a Heart slot.) If we accept that it's okay to use an Umbral Heart on Fire as well as Fire IV, we can solve a lot of the problems people are having in this thread with timing and proc placement.

    For example: if Sharpcast is up (which it should be every other round), we can use F4x2 > Sharp F1 > F4x2 > Proc F3 > F4x2 instead of sticking the proc in haphazardly. Dividing the Fire IVs into three blocks (2-2-2) instead of two (3-3) gives us a lot more room for movement and Enochian renewal, as well as providing room to slip in a Thundercloud (or a Foul, if you're holding it) after any two Fire IVs without risking our timer. If we don't have Sharpcast up, it's still mathematically advantageous to use a second Fire to make a 2-2-2 grouping if we have a Thundercloud (or Foul) in our pocket. The 3-3 grouping is still our best go-to without any procs or Foul, but if there's a lot of movement going on, it might be worth using a 2-2-2 grouping instead (it's a slight damage loss, but not nearly as bad as dropping Enochian).

    TL;DR: it doesn't matter what you use your Umbral Hearts on in single target, so space out your Fire IVs if you've got procs to use!

    My cheat sheet (feedback is welcome if I made errors somewhere!):

    Code:
    Opener:
    B3 > Eno+T3 > LL+B4 > F3 > (Diversion+)F4 > F4 > (TC) > Sharp+F1 > F4 > F4 > F4 > Proc F3 > Convert+F4 > F4 > F4 > back to UI (with Foul)
    
    (Note 1: I use Ley Lines between Thunder III and Blizzard IV because that's the earliest point it can be used that will encompass all eight Fire IVs.)
    (Note 2: If you happen to get a Thundercloud proc by the second Fire IV, use it! The initial cast will have ticked three times by then, which makes the clipping worth it.)
    
    If Sharpcast is up:
    F3 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > Sharp+F1 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > Proc F3 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > back to UI
    
    If Thundercloud procs before the second Fire IV, or if holding Foul:
    F3 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > Sharp+F1 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > F1 > F4 > F4 > (TC/Foul) > back to UI
    
    (Note 3: if Thundercloud procs after the second Fire IV, you're better off holding it until its usual spot in Umbral Ice, unless it would fall off just before.)
    
    If Firestarter procs without Sharpcast:
    F3 > F4 > F4 > F4 > F1 > F4 > F4 > Proc F3 > F4 > (TC) > back to UI
    
    Otherwise:
    F3 > F4 > F4 > F4 > F1 > F4 > F4 > F4 > back to UI
    (2)
    Last edited by KedaseDerragar; 06-21-2017 at 06:17 PM.

  2. 06-21-2017 06:01 PM

  3. #2382
    Player
    Gael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    305
    Character
    Maitre Gael
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    Someone posted this on reddit :



    10 fire 4 in the opener seems nice
    (0)

  4. #2383
    Player
    Cherub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Floating City of Nym
    Posts
    392
    Character
    Miasma Eschaton
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Lucid dreaming doesn't restore MP inside of Astral Fire though. At least so I have heard.
    (1)

  5. #2384
    Player
    Gael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    305
    Character
    Maitre Gael
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 70
    according to the poster, LD is not used for MP (so we could skip it xD)
    (0)

  6. #2385
    Player
    Derik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Derik Blackfoot
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 82
    Quote Originally Posted by Gael View Post
    according to the poster, LD is not used for MP (so we could skip it xD)
    I don't think he is using it for the mp. LD cuts enmity by half. If he is able to get that many f4's off in an opener, he probably needs it.
    (0)

  7. #2386
    Player
    PomPomFlare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    97
    Character
    Promestein Knowledge
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Gael View Post
    according to the poster, LD is not used for MP (so we could skip it xD)
    We can't. If you look at how MP values change, Fire IV under Umbral Heart costs 1200 MP and decrease is obviously lesser than that, that means he had ways of restoring MP.
    (0)

  8. #2387
    Player
    Lelila38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    757
    Character
    Rhia Nara
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    The LD there definitely isn't the cause that guy gets 10 F4 out. Under AF our natural mp regeneration is zero, so LD, which increases natural mp reg, shouldn't affect it, it's purely an aggro management for Blm. Maybe that spreadsheet was done before actual release and is just theory or that guy melded Pie? You simply don't have enough mp to fit 10 F4 in the opener atm, I can do 8.
    (1)

  9. #2388
    Player
    KedaseDerragar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Lho'ir Misata'lho
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 64
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelila38 View Post
    The LD there definitely isn't the cause that guy gets 10 F4 out. Under AF our natural mp regeneration is zero, so LD, which increases natural mp reg, shouldn't affect it, it's purely an aggro management for Blm. Maybe that spreadsheet was done before actual release and is just theory or that guy melded Pie? You simply don't have enough mp to fit 10 F4 in the opener atm, I can do 8.
    If you zoom in on the chart, there's a couple of columns off to the right that are labeled MP Gain and Lucid MP with values inside them, so I think you're right. This must have been made under the incorrect assumption that Lucid Dreaming would work during Astral Fire, without actually trying it out. (And Piety melding wouldn't work either, incidentally; you can still do it, but it won't add to MP anymore unless you're a healer.) More's the pity, ten Fire IVs would be incredible.
    (0)

  10. #2389
    Player
    Psycofang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Void Fang
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    LD does not give mp during AF. LD is effectively useless on blm minus very niche pre 70 situations.
    (2)

  11. #2390
    Player
    Woots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Wootsy Pootsy
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 60
    Do we know the best stats to be going for? Is SS still king?
    (0)

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