Anyone else feeling a hit to SCH?

[Amenako]

I was talking single target dps, not AoE. Everyone got nerfed AoE except WHM. o3o

broil doesn't make up enough damage for the two dots we only really get to use. if we kept one other dot or if shadowflare was how it used to be with a higher potency our dps would be okay but as of right now its semi annoying doing solo content as a sch.

[Amenako]

Worse than Secret of the Lily 2? I dunno about that.

yes i think out of the three healer traits SCH's is the worst out of all of them. As a SCH i am not wasting my aetherflow stacks on engery drain just to recover mana when you don't know if your going to need that for a heal or not.

[Tferr]

Excogitation and Fey Union strike me as abilities that were designed and implemented before they decided to do away with cleric stance dancing.
Lagresse doesn't affect half your toolkit or the fairy.
Dissipation somehow didn't get thrown out together with Featherfoot & Co.

I could make more points but my impression of 4.0 Scholar is a mix of 'what are they doing?' and 'this is awful'.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

And then the new savage raid comes out, and SCH turns out to be the best main healer, just like DRK did in 3.X.

[Azell]

And then the new savage raid comes out, and SCH turns out to be the best main healer, just like DRK did in 3.X.

you have no idea what you are talking about. sch cant main heal for shit, their aoe is the worst, their shield is worse and cost more than ast, fairy got nerfed, ast and whm got buffed on their cure1 benefic1, sch still have the shittiest physiks.
If you are talking about offhealer spot, yes, i think sch will still be better than noc ast for 8man content(just because brd/mch can refresh mp ogcd now and maybe have the caster manashift) but for everything else, literally everything else sch got destroyed.
They can only think about giving sch aetherflow skills but never increasing the number of stacks, never decreasing aetherflow cd, just NERFING the fking mp regen and increasing adlo cost, giving the new skill a 10yalm range... yeah, thats gonna work.

[LegoTechnic]

Excogitation and Fey Union strike me as abilities that were designed and implemented before they decided to do away with cleric stance dancing.
Lagresse doesn't affect half your toolkit or the fairy.
Dissipation somehow didn't get thrown out together with Featherfoot & Co.

I could make more points but my impression of 4.0 Scholar is a mix of 'what are they doing?' and 'this is awful'.

Excogitation seems designed specifically when thinking of all those raiding moments when a tank buster hits and then is immediately followed by another buster or an auto-attack, the latter of which can sometimes crit. Alexander Prime's buster was a good example of this, as well as the ones from Manipulator and Brute Justice who had similar, if not worse, mechanics, including multi-hit busters in the spirit of Bahamut's Akh Morn (which is another good example).

Largesse is an unfortunate addition most SCH's didn't want but should quickly get used to using if having difficulty. Since there is no Cure II, any time you find yourself needing to spam physick, either for moments when both tanks are taking heavy damage like Brute Justice bot phase or in a dungeon run with a lot of mobs punishing lesser geared tanks (see dungeons level 65+), then you will want to consider Largesse to keep up, especially if whispering dawn isn't available (since it's only 21 seconds every 60). It's not ideal and it's certainly not an aspect of play SCHs probably wanted given it pushes us even closer to WHM playstyle, but it's more responsive than illumination (which was nerfed anyway) and not as punishing as dissipation.

I'll form an opinion on Fey Union when I get it, though I'm currently gated by instance server issues preventing the MSQ from continuing. >_>;

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

you have no idea what you are talking about.

Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

[LegoTechnic]

Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

Let's go ahead and give this some serious thought. I mean there's a few possibilities here, isn't there?

DRK had a lot of anti-magic mitigation compared to PLD's physical mitigation, and Gordias/Midas were not only chock full of magic tank busters (lasers), but strict DPS checks where their better DPS supplanted poor PLDs. WAR was of course a shoo-in for off-tank due to their overwhelming DPS potential, of course.

The only possible correlation I can think of is a situation where periodic infirmity debuffs are applied, or effects similar to Ramuh's anti-heal applications occur that would necessitate more frequent use of ability heals than WHM's cooldown timers allow. Back in Ramuh's day SCH were the king of bypassing infirmity due to lustrate being an unmitigatable percentage heal, but they're not as dominant in this field anymore with lustrate as a flar potency, and the other healer classes have gained their own abilities with tetra, assize, and bene (the only percentage heal currently) on WHM and AST's tetra equivalent and the new Earthly Star, though SCH's three uses a minute can be made into six every two minutes with dissipation, so if there is an excessive infirmity mechanic where that ability can help bypass an otherwise annoying mechanic, then SCH might find themselves in DRK's desired shoes. Alternatively silence debuffs, since abilities can't be silenced.

Alternatively maybe a constant mana-wipe effect like the faust adds during Manipulator. Being able to save Aetherize for it was very useful, though with the nerf and Assize's matching of its cooldown and mana return this is no longer SCH's niche save, though the aetherize stacks costing no mana gives them a minor edge for healing with no mana, at least temporarily.

[RyuDragnier]

Alot of the complaints regarding SCH and WHM right now are synonymous with those that were leveled at DRK at the start of 3.X, with them seeming to lack anything desirable in comparison to the other tanks beyond a bit more deeps.

Then Savage hit and DRK's were the best tank by far to take them on. If you don't see the correlation,then you're willingly blinding yourself.

This is actually the main reason why I'm holding off all complaints about worthlessness. Until we hit level 70, we don't have our full kit, and endgame determines all.

[Rubiss]

This is actually the main reason why I'm holding off all complaints about worthlessness. Until we hit level 70, we don't have our full kit, and endgame determines all.

It's pretty obvious it's going to be terrible. Our hope rides solely on Chain Strategem. If that debuff to enemy's crit resistance is anything but bordering on OP, SCH is going to struggle like hell. SCH is the only healer to lose healing potency. We get more aetherflow abilities but no additional aetherflow stacks nor a CD reduction. Doing the math, Quickened Aetherflow (which is completely garbage) lowers Aetherflow's CD to about 52 seconds over a 12 minute period. That's terrible. Excog is just bad. It is just a slightly improved lustrate. It is 100% designed to be Aetherflow fodder when you have that last stack and a refresh is coming up. Broil 2 is whatever. Fey Union will likely be solid but the 10y range is pathetic. Everything rides on Chain Strategem.