Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[joannaluttrell]

Which is why I always argue that they should be doing something useful to the group with every gcd, not that they 'should dps'.
It just happens to coincide that the most useful thing once people are healed is to dpes...

In my opinion, that argument is horrendously mislabeled.
It's the people standing around idle that are the problem.

Preach it, sister!

Story:
Had another awesome Aery run (wtf, am I in the Twilight Zone?) Tank says he is new so I tell him I will give him important details on the boss fights unless he wants to go blind (he says hell no!) and off we go. Give a little 1-2 line description for all bosses and wham bam we are done. Not the speediest run I have had but since he said he was new and was receptive to help on the bosses it was all good.

[TruebladeNuke]

Obligatory "but did you clear?" here.

I'm being facetious, of course. Even us crazy pro-DPS poops never suggest healers shirk their primary duty - that being healing.

I imagined that went through their heads as we didn't wipe, lol.

But still... for a WHM to never even bother tossing out a Regen on the MT... that should tell you something. D:

[VanilleFang]

snip

I'd like to think that I'm a good healer, so there are some of us still left.

That being said, wow. Those are a couple of the worst healers I have ever read about. I'm very pro healer DPS, but I will say the worst healers are those who do not heal. I really dislike healers who stand around idle in between heals, but they aren't nearly as bad as healers who never heal.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

This is why many of us purposely characterize our arguments around utilizing your full toolkit. A healer who refuses to DPS is a bad player while a healer who only does damage is an idiot. Some people care more about their parses than actually keeping the group alive. I came across a 99% tank when Dun Scaith first released who utterly refused to tank. He literally watched as Diabolos torn through multiple DPS and healers when the other two tanks, woefully undergeared compared to him, went down. He never touched Grit, which would be fine... if he could establish aggro without it. He couldn't. And we eventually wiped. Like the healers you endured, they're all complete morons. Better to chalk this up as "bad players in DF" than a counterpart to the healer DPS argument. That being said, I do agree. Healers who won't DPS are certainly better than healers who won't heal. That's just... why even play the job if you won't utilizes it's core features? I'm guessing they were going for a parse run; like the tank I mentioned.

[Arkenne]

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

I am pretty sure those "healers" where actually trolling hard and nothing else :/

[Lunaxia]

ye gods

You need a grappling hook to get over that wall of text. The "DPS DPS DPS" was more annoying than the healers themselves.

To be perfectly honest, they don't sound that bad to me? The very fact you got through Zurvan says they can't have been that awful; I've seen healers who don't even touch Cleric unable to pull that off. It seems more like you're cheesed off you had to push yourself as a tank instead of doing your 1-2-3-mitigate rotation and relying on them to carry you through. Yes, they timed it badly on some occasions, but I admire them for trying to help push damage. The fact you saw Soar in the 1st/ 2nd phase suggests DPS wasn't fantastic, which they may have been trying to compensate for.

Lazy healers who stand around and do nothing are everywhere and enough of a problem already, so please don't use one negative experience to try and act as if DPS-happy healers are anywhere as near as common.

[TruebladeNuke]

Snip

Sounds like you didn't read it all. Aside from the "DPS" segments being thrown in for humor, I'm pretty sure I fully explained why those healers needed to shape up. I'll cover the key points here again once more before dropping it here, as I have no intention of allowing myself to get involved into a debate on here.

1: The WHM never bothered to use "Regen" period. Not even a "Medica II" until things started to go to hell. "Regen" is a WHM's literal best tool for allowing themselves time to squeeze in DPS. Yet he never used it. I'd say the same of the AST, but he was in Nocturnal Stance.

2: The healers refused to heal even as it got to the point where the next AUTO attack would kill me or the WAR. They had several seconds to turn off Cleric Stance and get the HP back up to shape when the WAR Holmganged and when I used Hallowed Ground. Not a single heal spell went off on the WAR during those few seconds of Holmgang time. And they only healed me AFTER Zurvan jumped, when I would have been dead if I didn't use Hallowed Ground.

3: This isn't even EX. This is NORMAL Zurvan. You know... the one you can get in Trials Roulette?

4: Please drop the "Skip Soar" thing here. That's not the point here. Also, doing Soar's mechanic isn't as hard as people make it out to be anyway. Especially on normal/hard mode.

These two healers weren't even actually TRYING to heal... until things went to hell for a bit. How does a WHM go an entire battle in Duty Finder without ever touching Regen? It's their best tool for allowing themselves time to DPS... along with Holy when it comes to mob control. I'm honestly with some of the other people who responded on this matter. It sounds like they cared more about their parse over actually doing the job they signed up for. Squeezing DPS in is the icing on the cake to Tanks and Healers. More so for Healers then Tanks. (As damage happens to be part of the Tank's rotation, especially after they've already secured aggro and get to start busting out things like Goring Blade) If all they care about is how much damage they're doing, they should be playing as DPS jobs. Not healers.

It's one thing to endure healers that won't DPS. But I can, and WILL, kick "healers" who refuse to even remotely touch their healer toolkit.

[Hamada]

the real question is....... when did things like that start happening?I remember when I was a noob player in 3.1 at the end of 2015. And I've done wrong EVERYTHING possible. Like...I was the lvl 37 conjurer who thought its ok to do the whole "lvl arcanist to 15 and become a whm" later
because at no point, the game EXPLAINED to you WHY you have to pick a second class or forced you to do it. It's just "boom, lvl 30 quest, requirement: arcanist lvl 15" in your face.
So the reason why I eventually did it is because I started struggling with heals sometimes and people questioned why I wasnt a WHM.

Then I became a WHM and threw around Regen happily just to be told by the tank to not do it during pulls.

When I lvled BLM, I initially was a Fire III spamming BLM because despite reading tooltips, I didnt understand the whole Astral Fire/Umbral Ice buff thing for some reason.
And a nice guy in a dungeon then quickly explained me a basic rotation. Took 2-3 minutes, but I was able to improve my dps output instantly.


Point is, back then, whenever I was a first-timer, in 99% of all cases, I didnt even have to ask for boss strategies...people were courteous enough to shortly summarize what the boss does
and always offered helpful advice for basic rotations and rules like "dont use Regen before the pull" etc. And I was grateful and LISTENED. Nowadays, its become a rarity that people even want or accept help. All the nice and helpful people seem fed up with people refusing help and stopped caring.

I dont understand why people are like this.
I didnt even ask for help and people were so nice and helpful to me and I appreciated it. How can you NOT appreciate this? Its what made me fall in love with this game even more: the friendly, helpful community.
And I'm convinced that same community is still present, but keeping a low profile cos theyre tired of the new influx of the "dont tell me how to play" generation of players.


Just...why?

My friend sees the same thing, ofc it will look nice to someone accepting advice, you can go a few pages back when I tried to help someone with healing and the replies that got. Why people act like that I got no idea.

During late 2.0 people where really abusive to healers, if you did not overgear and kept up with the mega pulls, even when you remind them to slow down, the general base didn't and kicked or harassed healers.

Now it is like people expect to be carried. who knows why that general tone changed.

^ this mentality is toxic. Why is help or advice a bad thing? Why does offering help or advice lead to arguments? People are turning it into a bad thing with their toxic attitudes and responses when people chat to them.

Can't say that to people just report them.

[Lunaxia]

snop

Admittedly after the sixth paragraph my attention began to wane. But the fact that it's Zurvan NM is a plus in their column, tbh. You need even less healing.

I'm not saying they were perfect or even good, regens at least are certainly a good idea, but I stand by what I said. I admire players who push damage and make some mistakes far more than "let me stand around in case you need healing in 40 seconds." And I know sometimes, when the damage is negligible, I'll stay in Cleric and hope the tank has the common sense to heal/ mitigate themselves when necessary. Unfortunately, few do.

I don't think they were making any kind of statement in regards to DPS, ignoring healing or proving a point, they just saw an easy trial and thought it'd be all right to be Cleric happy. You made it through, and when *cough did hit the fan, they brought it back, so like I said, it can't have been too terrible. It's hardly something to get so worked up over.

[savageink]

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

Yeah, I had one of those the other day. Had to toss out Mage Ballad before we even hit the first boss. Then they posted a parse, and I laughed. Of course they were doing alot of damage. They were spamming AoE DPS spells. And the healing was definitely on the light side.