About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Ootarion]

Let's flip that around:

If the game is in a state where it is more valuable to continue dpsing than to dispel debuffs as a healer, something is wrong. Healers should be dpsing in their downtime, but not in lieu of the job they are there for.

I mean, I love the fact that as a Healer I can DPS when I need to/want to, but yeah.....if I need to dispel debuffs on a moment's notice, id rather have the means to do so all the time, and having to sacrifice a Cross Role slot to equip something that should by all accounts remain a built in ability to the Healers, is not very good design.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Let's flip that around:

If the game is in a state where it is more valuable to continue dpsing than to dispel debuffs as a healer, something is wrong. Healers should be dpsing in their downtime, but not in lieu of the job they are there for.

Then tell SE to either make DoTs more dangerous, or to Nerf the passive healing of regens, because outside of Doom and a couple Savage fights, dispelling debuffs is nearly flat out worthless. Even at entry level I can ignore most DoTs by just activating Bloodbath, and even if I don't it's not like I'm gonna be taking anymore damage anyway. Using Esuna is just a waste of a GCD when I can get far greater returns by continuing to DPS.

[Ootarion]

Then tell SE to either make DoTs more dangerous, or to Nerf the passive healing of regens, because outside of Doom and a couple Savage fights, dispelling debuffs is nearly flat out worthless. Even at entry level I can ignore most DoTs by just activating Bloodbath, and even if I don't it's not like I'm gonna be taking anymore damage anyway. Using Esuna is just a waste of a GCD when I can get far greater returns by continuing to DPS.

Cannot change everyones opinion Furious. But Esuna....a waste of a GCD? First off, what is the point in continuing to DPS if DoTs are so strong that they would kill someone in seconds, heals or no heals? You'd spend a huge amount of MP just healing someone through a DoT or other Status Effect that you could just Cleanse, believe me, I know, I just did a dungeon and made it harder on myself on purpose by not using Leeches on my party members EVER and it just made things harder on everyone, I didnt even summon Selene, just used Eos and Eos doesnt have a Cleanse.

Even IF it is doable to just heal people through DoTs, it none the less uses more MP then necessary cause of the excess damage, when you could spend the time to remove those DoTs and have an easier time keeping people alive, but if Healers wanna inconvenience their party just so they can add a little more damage rather then DO what their Role is intended for, when they ought to be, such as Healing and Cleansing, then fine.

While I am happy that Healers can bring a good bit of damage to the party, and I wouldnt wanna change this, it is none the less not their primary function.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

First off, what is the point in continuing to DPS if DoTs are so strong that they would kill someone in seconds, heals or no heals?

As a counterpoint, what cleanable DoT in game is that strong? As a DPS I've purposely taken every DoT in the face just to count the damage done per tick, and there isn't a single one in game that does over 2k. That's chump change. That's the equivalent of healing the tank cause he has maybe 500 HP damage. It's a waste of MP, and any feelings to the contrary is factually akin to a placebo effect.

[Ootarion]

As a counterpoint, what cleanable DoT in game is that strong? As a DPS I've purposely taken every DoT in the face just to count the damage done per tick, and there isn't a single one in game that does over 2k. That's chump change. That's the equivalent of healing the tank cause he has maybe 500 HP damage. It's a waste of MP, and any feelings to the contrary is factually akin to a placebo effect.

Lets say for the sake of the argument that you are actually correct, what dungeons are you doing this in where the DoT damage is no danger? Give me a complete list of all these dungeons that you did this test of your's on, so I can go do them myself and see what happens.

Addendum: Btw, its not just DoTs that can pose a threat, DoTs combined with other things can equal excessive amounts of damage and there are status effects that when not taken care of, can actually slow people down, which if this is done to a DPS, it would slow their DPS down, thus making the fight last longer, Ive actually seen people die cause they had a Movement debuff on them that slowed them down so much, they couldnt get out of the way of a really heavy hitting attack in time. But again, give me a list of all these dungeons you did where the DoT damages were as pathetic as you are saying.

[LegoTechnic]

As a counterpoint, what cleanable DoT in game is that strong? As a DPS I've purposely taken every DoT in the face just to count the damage done per tick, and there isn't a single one in game that does over 2k. That's chump change. That's the equivalent of healing the tank cause he has maybe 500 HP damage. It's a waste of MP, and any feelings to the contrary is factually akin to a placebo effect.

Just to say it, Venomous Tail was incredibly dangerous when 2nd coil was the active raid tier. Also not all DPS have access to self-heals; MCHs for instance have none, and those that rely on Second Wind aren't all that much better. WARs though are pretty lulz. I actually encourage you to ignore the dots you can as a WAR, because that's part of the charm of the class.

[Ootarion]

Just to say it, Venomous Tail was incredibly dangerous when 2nd coil was the active raid tier. Also not all DPS have access to self-heals; MCHs for instance have none, and those that rely on Second Wind aren't all that much better. WARs though are pretty lulz. I actually encourage you to ignore the dots you can as a WAR, because that's part of the charm of the class.

WOW really? WARs can actually just shrug off DoTs? I often wondered why they were so easy to heal apart from them just being so darn durable. Thunda_Cat you pretty much just lost a good chunk of your argument.....

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

WOW really? WARs can actually just shrug off DoTs? I often wondered why they were so easy to heal apart from them just being so darn durable. Thunda_Cat you pretty much just lost a good chunk of your argument.....

Second coil was also top end raiding at the time, and it's rare for anything in top end raids to actually be cleansable. I've also done this test in essentially every casual dungeon/raid 4, 8, and 24 man, as MCH, which has exactly no self heals, and my HP never dipped below 75-80% of my maximum, and more importantly, each one was easily ignorable by avoiding the massive visible bad. The only exception is Sastasha Hard, which I acknowledged as far as cleansable debuffs go. Shadow Links in Dun Scaith does hit fairly hard at around 4k a tick, but it's not cleansable, which is the topic of debate.

WARs also don't shrug off DoTs, they just have so much health that they can ignore even more easily, which is shared across all tanks.

As for Slow/Heavy/Paralysis, even better solution: DON'T STAND IN THE GIANT AOE OF BAD.

if my healer plays with the attitude that if I make a mistake and gets hit by something then I deserve to suffer then I am going to find a new healer.

Healers aren't there to heal. :3 If someone steps in bad twice then I'm not gonna waste mana on them. I have more important things to do with my time.

[Cynthis]

It's not just about keeping people alive either. If, for example, a BLM gets hit by a debuff that interrupts pretty much every cast or slows/heavies him then unless the healer does more damage than the BLM it is better for the party's DPS that the healer removes the debuff than that he continues to DPS hmself. Sure, a lot of those are avoidable but if my healer plays with the attitude that if I make a mistake and gets hit by something then I deserve to suffer then I am going to find a new healer. I am all for healers doing damage but the MAIN point of a healer is to, you know, heal. It's kind of in the job title.

[Ootarion]

It's not just about keeping people alive either. If, for example, a BLM gets hit by a debuff that interrupts pretty much every cast or slows/heavies him then unless the healer does more damage than the BLM it is better for the party's DPS that the healer removes the debuff than that he continues to DPS hmself. Sure, a lot of those are avoidable but if my healer plays with the attitude that if I make a mistake and gets hit by something then I deserve to suffer then I am going to find a new healer. I am all for healers doing damage but the MAIN point of a healer is to, you know, heal. It's kind of in the job title.

Thank you Cynthis...Thunda_Cat doesnt seem to understand this fact.

As for Slow/Heavy/Paralysis, even better solution: DON'T STAND IN THE GIANT AOE OF BAD. Healers aren't there to heal. :3 If someone steps in bad twice then I'm not gonna waste mana on them. I have more important things to do with my time.

Case in point....unless you were just joking Thunda_Cat....Healers are there to Heal, which means heal people when they get hurt and to remove Debuffs/DoTs. If people are standing in stuff that is impossible to miss or are about to get hit by something that is blatantly telegraphed by those hard to miss indicators, then they either somehow missed em, or stood in them on purpose, either which way, I will still heal them and at the same time tell them "Please watch out for those attack indicators" or "Please dont stand in that..."

I was in a Raid Party with a friend of mine who was Co Healing with me and we both watched a Ninja die like 5+ times to the same boss, and we each took turns reviving him until we were both like "Okay you know what, lets not revive him anymore" (which we could coordinate real well since we use Voice." There will come a time where I will stop helping someone if they are being dumb. But if they are stepping in bad stuff I will heal them if they are still alive cause the more people who stay alive the faster something dies, especially if the people I am healing are the DPS, a Healer CANNOT do the dps of someone who is a Damage class, so we shouldnt try to do their job! A Healer cannot do the damage of a BLM, DRG, Nin, Bard or MCH, it isnt our purpose, we just dont have their damage potential.