About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Ootarion]

I am seeing the words "If Leeches was acquired at a lower level, then Summoner would have it to." ummm there is a simple solution to this....program it so that no matter what, Summoner cant have access to it which is 100% doable, or perhaps program it to be learned at around the same time SCH gets another ability from a quest, why there only needs to be one Skill learned ever 5 levels from a quest once unlocking a Job Class (IE Scholar) has always confused me, but IN THIS regard it would make sense. Have Scholar learn Leeches at a much sooner level at the same time it's learning another, this is yet another way to prevent Summoner from having it to. There are ways to prevent Summoner from having access to it, and if this Cross Role system was one such way to do so, then it was not the best way.

Addendum: I know I said that they could just have Leeches learned at the same time as another SCH Job Skill but why not instead switch its place with a lower level SCH Job Skill? That way Leeches is learned sooner and whatever Job Skill it took the place of is learned later.

[dynus]

Eh, the only thing I'm worried about is the story content involving Leeches. Though that's easily remedied by simply changing it Esuna (though what will we learn in the lv 40 SCH quest now? I haven't seen anything about that yet)

[Fawkes]

If you decide not to use the same slot in your hotbars and leave Esuna greyed out, then that's your choice and yours alone. Other players might just change it and have one button freed up.

It's similar to how PvP was, which they are fixing, everyone could have just made macros to swap their PvP skills in and out of their hotbar, but few people ever did. Now PvP has it's own hotbar so people don't have to swap, and the people who didn't swap are no longer automatically gimped by not having as many skills as those that did.

[Ootarion]

Eh, the only thing I'm worried about is the story content involving Leeches. Though that's easily remedied by simply changing it Esuna (though what will we learn in the lv 40 SCH quest now? I haven't seen anything about that yet)

This is yet another example of why the current Cross Role system as we've seen it in SB videos is such a problem.

[Furious]

It does reduce button bloat, since if you go into a fight that doesn't need Esuna at all, you can instead change that skill in your hotbar to the other Role Skill you're bringing. If you decide not to use the same slot in your hotbars and leave Esuna greyed out, then that's your choice and yours alone. Other players might just change it and have one button freed up.

And about the need to change your role skills per instance... SCHs already do this by weaving Blizzard II for dungeons and Stoneskin/something else for important or more difficult raids.

Button bloat relates to abilities that are not used, or are used in very small niches. Status removal is used all the time. Ergo: Status removal is not button bloat. Frankly, whether or not it is possible to run without status removal, making it optional to me is a watering down of the role. Removing statuses is just something that healers do; only now, they mightn't because reasons.

[Ootarion]

Button bloat relates to abilities that are not used, or are used in very small niches. Status removal is used all the time. Ergo: Status removal is not button bloat. Frankly, whether or not it is possible to run without status removal, making it optional to me is a watering down of the role. Removing statuses is just something that healers do; only now, they mightn't because reasons.

This is actually very true of you Furious, there are some Healers out there who might not use status removers simply because reasons.

I mean imagine a Healer who has their own playstyle that involves never having Esuna equipped, they have the freedom and right to do this because the system is now allowing them to not have it, ever. People may think this is a blessing but it will more then likely be a curse. Because the Healer has the right and freedom to refuse to have it as part of their preferred kit, and no one would be able to have justifiable reasons to chew them out or be upset because the Healer is just doing what the game is now permitting them to do. If the Status Removers were core built into the Healers then that would be another matter cause they would have access to it regardless because its in their core kit, and not in the Cross Role.

[Phixx]

Button bloat relates to abilities that are not used, or are used in very small niches. Status removal is used all the time. Ergo: Status removal is not button bloat. Frankly, whether or not it is possible to run without status removal, making it optional to me is a watering down of the role. Removing statuses is just something that healers do; only now, they mightn't because reasons.

Well now it is a healer role ability.
With the change from cross class to role abilities SE has to put some abilities in that selection that are considered "necessary" for that role.
With the removal of cross class they can't have Protect be a WHM only spell, and adding it to all the healers increases the number of buttons; Esuna is meeting a similar fate because it is random for a dungeon or boss to actually require a dispel and you can now choose if you need it or not. Don't want to have to "worry about possibly needing it" or you feel like it is "used all the time" then take it. This is just another iteration or cross class which is already inflexible. Are the new Role Abilities perfect? No, but complaining about how you have little to no choice when the current model doesn't have them either is whining just to whine.

Ex. I need Esuna for Baelsar's Wall, I however won't touch the button in Sohr Kai (Hard), I however will still take it if I am doing Expert Roulette.

[Fyce]

Status removal is used all the time.

No it's not. There's very few dungeons and raids where it's mandatory.
You can do all daily roulettes for a month and never end up on a duty where you'll have to press that button.

[Ootarion]

Well now it is a healer role ability.
With the change from cross class to role abilities SE has to put some abilities in that selection that are considered "necessary" for that role.
With the removal of cross class they can't have Protect be a WHM only spell, and adding it to all the healers increases the number of buttons; Esuna is meeting a similar fate because it is random for a dungeon or boss to actually require a dispel and you can now choose if you need it or not. Don't want to have to "worry about possibly needing it" or you feel like it is "used all the time" then take it. This is just another iteration or cross class which is already inflexible. Are the new Role Abilities perfect? No, but complaining about how you have little to no choice when the current model doesn't have them either is whining just to whine.

Ex. I need Esuna for Baelsar's Wall, I however won't touch the button in Sohr Kai (Hard), I however will still take it if I am doing Expert Roulette.

How do you justify the fact that Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether (which are MP refreshers of equal MP restoration) from White Mage and Astrologian? These are built into the classes and are now being shoved into the Cross Role as Lucid Dreaming.....I can see if this is to help SCH but Ive never seen a Scholar have MP troubles and even if they did, its hardly a reason to rob WHM and AST of something built into them. SE can just as easily program the Cross Role to have Lucid Dreaming show up ONLY for SCH while WHM and AST get to keep the ones they already have built into them. Yes this would mean that WHM and AST would only have 9 Cross Role abilities, but who cares, it doesnt need to be symmetrical and you can bet SEs entire reason for combining Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether into the Cross Role Lucid Dreaming and combining Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches into the Cross Role Esuna, was just to make sure ALL the Healers had a Healer Cross Role menu that had 10 different abilities for the sake of an unnecessary symmetry -.-

[Phixx]

Manas

Well (as far as we know) they are nerfing Aetherflow mana regen to 10%, which will be the same as WHM gets from Assize. So now there is the chance that ALL the healers will need it and so they are relegating it to the Healer Role Abilities.

You keep ignoring the fact that these abilities can help ALL the healers do their job, that is why SE is creating a system that allows them all to access them. The healer can then pick and choose what they believe to be necessary to complete the content they are intending to do. If they were to individualize them based on job, what is even the point of the system?

Edit: I would like to point out that these are also not direct healing spells, but utility abilities.