Red Mage AoE

[Shunye]

I like how the job hasn't even been released yet and there are already sims and theory crafting going on with no actual experience of playing the class that is hitting live. Square has done an amazing job balancing most classes over the years so i trust they will get it right this time too. give it a week at least until the "OMG NEED A COMPLETE REWORK PLS." (keep in mind they already said they will be balancing numbers all the way up through launch, so numbers that are over a month old really mean nothing at this point)

[Phoenicia]

I like how the job hasn't even been released yet and there are already sims and theory crafting going on with no actual experience of playing the class that is hitting live. Square has done an amazing job balancing most classes over the years so i trust they will get it right this time too. give it a week at least until the "OMG NEED A COMPLETE REWORK PLS." (keep in mind they already said they will be balancing numbers all the way up through launch, so numbers that are over a month old really mean nothing at this point)

It took Square-Enix 4 years to add ONE AoE skill to the PLD which was plagued by the most boring playstyle since 2.0. That is what worries people. SE is the type that goes: If class can do the fights, it's fine. They don't care about fun factors as much.

[Hyrist]

They do look at population/job numbers and feedback. They did give Monk Raid utility, and moved the Damage Combo on Paladin as well. Sure, it's slow moving, but it has to be in order to make the right reaction for everyone, not just the vocal. We're dealing with multiple hundred thousands of people and opinions here. We can loose sight of that sometimes.

[Phoenicia]

They do look at population/job numbers and feedback. They did give Monk Raid utility, and moved the Damage Combo on Paladin as well. Sure, it's slow moving, but it has to be in order to make the right reaction for everyone, not just the vocal. We're dealing with multiple hundred thousands of people and opinions here. We can loose sight of that sometimes.

Yeah I agree with you here and I'm half-sarcastic in my comments as I'm here mostly for the salt lol. But the vocal population's voice is sort of justified. And let's face it, most of the non-vocals have no clue to even know what the vocal populace is worried about.

[Cebo]

Here's one idea:

Modify Scatter so that it increases Black Mana and White Mana by 3 for each enemy hit by Scatter (perhaps with a cap of 15 or so for balance sake). It's still worthless as a single target, but in AOE situations, now you have a mana generator stronger than Verfire or Verstone, which would also allow more Enchanted Moulinets. It would slightly increase RDM AOE dps, accelerate the AOE rotation a bit, while also giving the option to conserve the mana to dump it for single target damage later.

[Hyrist]

Eh, I'm watching my blood pressure - so low sodium diet for me.

I'm also conditioned on FFXI's version of RDM, and it influences my thinking whether I like it or not. Red Mage in FFXI, and also in other games as well, was never really that good at AoE. They followed the concept of 'duelist', as is common in the association with their Spanish/French fencer motif. So for me to see the level of AoE utility they currently have, I'm just more generally accepting of it. Besides, it looks as if the developers were more interested in taking some of the AoE power away from the mages as a whole, and distribute it among everyone. What with Samurai having a strong AoE set, Monk getting more utility to use their Elixer Field more frequently, and Dragoon trading up their Ring of Thorns for a more compact and usable AoE rotation.

So yeah, you combine all that and I'm kosher. I'm a big picture kinda guy.

[KaerisKlyne]

snip

Those are fair points! I think it's fair to weigh it against Samurai as a job being introduced alongside it, but I think as far as it relates to other casters, it's a matter of which caster your party wants to take for which piece of content. I maintain my stance that jobs within like categories shouldn't all be good at all the same things, but I do agree that Samurai (barring potency changes we may not yet know about) certainly seems to have MUCH more going for it in terms of desirability.

[NovaLevossida]

Besides, it looks as if the developers were more interested in taking some of the AoE power away from the mages as a whole, and distribute it among everyone.

They really only lowered SMN's AoE / Fire 2 potency and buffed BLM's AoE with Thunder AoE, multiple Flares in a row thanks to Umbral Hearts / triple swiftcast, and Foul. I don't see it as a thematic trend when all they did was take away SMN's birthday presents and give them to BLM.

[Hyrist]

They really only lowered SMN's AoE / Fire 2 potency and buffed BLM's AoE with Thunder AoE, multiple Flares in a row thanks to Umbral Hearts / triple swiftcast, and Foul. I don't see it as a thematic trend when all they did was take away SMN's birthday presents and give them to BLM.

If you're going to go that route, you're going to have to address the Elder Primal in the room. Pretty much at the end if your second Dreadwyrm stance rotation you get a free wipe out an AoE group card in the form of two higher potency AoE OG Deathflares in the span of 30 seconds.

You're not dealing with any more salt than the other classes did in 3.0, and theirs didn't get padded with a dragon god for a pet. Any arguments past that and you're going to need to parse first.

[NovaLevossida]

If you're going to go that route, you're going to have to address the Elder Primal in the room. Pretty much at the end if your second Dreadwyrm stance rotation you get a free wipe out an AoE group card in the form of two higher potency AoE OG Deathflares in the span of 30 seconds.

You're not dealing with any more salt than the other classes did in 3.0, and theirs didn't get padded with a dragon god for a pet. Any arguments past that and you're going to need to parse first.

BLMs just call that Foul, or as Hulk would call it: puny god. In the time you build up to using Akh Morn twice, BLM has gotten mulitple Fouls. On top of everything else they have vs. what SMN lost. Let's be honest about the AoE discrepancy between the jobs instead of just wanting SMN to not have taken as big of a hit that it has.