Tanks and healers.

[SDaemon]

I will miss cleric stance dancing, while it was sometimes an issue where it would not report properly that it was off it did however basically state to the other healer, or anyone else who was paying attention to party buffs, that you were swapping into focusing on DPS. It was also in a way a nice mental gear shift, but I understand it is not that way for everyone.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the greater fluidity without cleric stance. I've never been a fan of DPSing while healing as I'd rather SE give healers something else to do to fill up healing downtime, but since that isn't the current design I'd rather spam Malefic than do nothing. I'm looking forward to being able to DPS during downtime if I want without worrying about a buggy stance dance causing unintended problems.

[Averax]

When people make these threads instead of posting in the many many many many existing ones.

[YitharV2]

See that's how you start things. Is it illegal to just enjoy the game how you would like to? This game is not competitive outside of raid content, so your feelings of always doing your best seems a bit misplaced to me.

"The problem isnt healer should dps vs shouldn't dps. It's when you dont play efficiently with random people. At that point it's not just your time its 3-7 other people.(Not counting 24 mans cause that's another ballpark). However, if you're on a team whos ok with you not dpsing as a healer becuase your team isn't out to be cutting edge, then that's fine. Cause at that point your team knows about it and shouldn't mind it.

Now on my own personal stance, healers should dps to be efficient. Hopefully with healer dps scaling off of MND in SB. Coupled with the removal of CS it should help some healers make that final leap into dpsing more comfortably. As now you won't get caught in CS at a bad time when you need to heal. We will just need to see how it pans out in the next few weeks."

That was actually a response to a certain healer in podcast saying this.

This is going to sound horribly full of myself... but I think I play White Mage the way it's intended, which is kind of a little bit of everything, but just as a reactive healer just trying to stay ahead of the curve.

It's not illegal for a healer to just heal as needed, but it looks incredibly lazy and playstyle differences is a valid reason to kick. Most of time I don't bother kicking them since I get that some people want to just heal and it's probably more time to wait for a healer that will DPS. It's just like, what are they doing in their downtime? I can't imagine doing nothing to be fun.

[akaneakki]

. The people who did pick it should learn how to play their own role better rather than expecting the other people to play two roles good so they can slack off.

I just need to say it and my fingers been itching for hours, after seing this at work but couldnt post. But holy sh*t. The irony in this post is almost over 9000. First of all nobody is saying healers should dps because the DPS is bad, even tho most healers actually outperform actuall dps in roulettes. Have you seen how people who have a group of people where everyone does a lot of dmg? In fact there will be less mechanics, less healing (best mitigation, which is both healer and tank jobs) while dps is to give group utility and do damage. The irony part of your post is you never raided and shouldn't even act like it. The fact you never raided nor do ''medicore'' content and then tell people how to play is the biggest irony of your post lol.

[Bradach]

The real question is:

Why healers should dps instead that DPS really do their job ?

If dps do really dps theses threads on forum will never existed .

you can complain about healers dps or not as same for tanks but if you want solve thath ask the dd to improve their gameplay that's all ^^

[akaneakki]

^

To make it short, your cds/spells/skills arent there to look pretty, they are there to be used.

[KisaiTenshi]

The real question is:

If dps do really dps theses threads on forum will never existed .

That's probably true, but that tends to be more of a gear thing than a competence thing.

Seems like PotD is training people to use the skills without the teamwork, or matching gear.

[Bradach]

that's not a question of gear but mentality, let me explain:

You have never thinking about why people get so elitist at some point in pf for example ?

The game tend to have check dps in bosses battles to go throught the content, but the current problem as we know is :

- Many players just want to be carry without do anything to get loot or down ( look at theses pf so called "kill for a friend" and the guy is alone in pf asking no other bonus)

- Many don't wan't teach well their classes and their reponse is " i do whatever i want" , they don't accept any comment or anything.

- Many ragequitters

i can continue forever why people can be really "elitists" sometimes but the gear is not the reason for that.

As for dreaming of an utopia which everyone is no ragequiting , play well , i don't do any face plam at my desk ... we can continue that dream x)


PS: Thanks for resume more simple Akane

[Sylve]

Going to bring up WoW here, don't freak out. I promise its relevant XD

The best time i ever had as a Healer in dungeon play was going through Blackrock Depths (For the uninitiated, back during vanilla, that dungeon was a 5 man crawl that could take up to 2 hours or more to full clear) at the minimum level to run it.
The reason, for me, for it being fun was that trash pulls were tactical. Damage on the tank was kind of heavy at all times, but never quite getting to whack-a-mole levels of HP bar pinging around.
Those trash fights would often last several minutes, longer if a runner escaped and ran to a new pack. Not because of 'bad' DPS, but because the mobs had mechanics and high HP pools coupled with target limitations on AoE attacks.
They also had decent chances to drop good loot, so clearing them was beneficial to the party.
There was almost never a chance to throw a Damage spell at a mob because it was a gross waste of Mana and the time was better spent not casting so as to get the increased regen from the old '5 second rule' on Mana regen speeds.

Then i compare that style of gameplay to current dungeons, Not specifically XIV, but MMO Dungeons as a whole. Where trash packs melt in 10 seconds or less and the meta has devolved into MOAR DPS MOAR DPS because the rewards all happen at the very end of the dungeon.
When you have trash mobs that are unrewarding to kill, die before ever dealing threatening damage to a Tank and have no mechanics that need to be watched for beyond "Its a red circle, GTFO", Whats a Healer supposed to do? The answer in all MMOs lately, has to been to DPS, because it gets everyone to the carrot that little bit faster and further trivializes the already trivial amounts of damage trash mobs deal to Tanks.

For as long as the only reason to go to a dungeon is to get the chest at the end (Somewhat broken up now with tomes being rewarded per boss, Though roulette rewards etc...), We're going to be constantly pushed to do more DPS when that isn't your primary role.
Either Dungeons need to get harder and be more rewarding or allow a scaling of difficulties and rewards (Savage Light Party play!)
Alternatively, SE could go the route of putting Diadem style loot drops (or randomly tomes) on trash mobs and then beefing them up to provide an actual threat to the party while making them rewarding to kill. Treat trash mobs as minibosses rather than an irritant to be waded through to get to the real reward.
Or they could even go the route of multiple modes on a Dungeon similar to GW2, Where you have the fast 'story' mode where you're locked into one track of specific bosses and then a more open 'Exploration' mode where everything is far tougher and the dungeon opens up to its fullest instead of being a series of corridors.
They could even re-purpose open world zones into dungeons for a completely different kind of Light Party Dungeon. They already do this to a small extent with various quests that have you enter an instance of the area the quest takes place in.
Right now, Dungeons are essentially treated as a chore that must be done as quickly as possible to get your pocket money... That needs to be fixed, since its part of why Healers and Tanks are being pushed to be DPS before their primary role.
Theres a lot that could be done to improve Light Party gameplay instead of leaving it as a weekly chore to get the good stuff. They should probably tinker with how damage is applied in a raid setting too, to minimize those periods where the tank is either full or dead.

[Jhael]

This discussion is an exercise in futility. Excluding cutting edge progression, as long as you can down the dungeon/raid, whether the healer DPSed or not only affects the length of time it takes to down it.
The first thing we must remember is that you cannot impose how you want someone else to play, on that person, "more efficient" or not. In the end you cannot make them do it on their end of the screen. You cannot, because the game has not been designed to aggressively push that end of it.
I understand it bothers certain people that other people are not "playing to the best of their ability" but if that's what's bothering you, you will never be happy in any mmo. It happens with all roles. And the issue is with you, not your teammates in this instance.
This game isn't that hard in the first place. Let them do as they please, live and let live.
In conclusion, the real question is, does it matter?