MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

[Arkenne]

Yes, we got raid utility...but it's underpowered.

I gotta agree that it is underpowered. Too little a raid buff for too short a time for too long a cooldown.
Tho I believe they did intend for some raid synergy in an upside-down fashion?
For example, brotherhood works the best for the MNK the less casters the party has :/ (so, yay?)

... not very helpful.

Well, hopefully we'll see some good changes on the patch notes, since it have been told the tooltips shown so far were an April build that prioritized game stability for the media to enjoy over balance of the skills, so most likely things will be slightly (or very) different once we see them out.

[SpeckledBurd]

I just don't remember the plight of Mnks being this bad, you guys made it seem as though you couldn't get Into simple pugs to accomplish things.

That did happen, we were barred from entering pick up groups in the PF frequently enough to be noticeable for EX and Savage raid parties, most noticeably in 3.4/3.5.

I see more people upset that MNK just spent 2 years being unquestionably worse then DRG/NIN and now SAM will actually be a good version of HW MNK while SB MNK is projected to be the worst melee DPS for another expansion. Most of the good MNK's I've talked to plan on changing from MNK if the current tooltips don't change next week.

This is another good point at all. I'm not convinced that Samurai is going to be super OP at this point, but it's incredibly aggravating to be neglected by the devs since 3.2 in Heavensward while the other Melee see buffs (Dragoon's getting buffed by the buffs to Bard/Machinist probably wasn't intentional, but Ninja sure needed that AOE buff to further weaken Monk since that was the one spot it excelled at compared to the other melee), and then have them actually try and make Samurai what Monk was supposed to be.

[Kuroyasha]

Ayo dawg I heard you like RNG.

So we put RNG on your RNG so you can RNG while you RNG.

[Waliel]

Didn't Flare go from -10/20/30/40/50... to -15/30....? That's a buff on any more than 4 mobs...

Late reply, but let's do some math.

Current Flare average multiplier:
4 - 0.85
5 - 0.8
6 - 0.75

New Flare:
4 - 0.8125
5 - 0.79
6 - 0.775

It's technically worse on five enemies, but worse for less. Any more than six and it gets better and better.

[Shurrikhan]

Current Flare average multiplier... <snip>

It's technically worse on five enemies, but worse for less. Any more than six and it gets better and better.

100 / 190 / 270 / 340 / 400 / 450 / 500
100 / 185 / 255 / 325 / 395 / 465 / 535

Sorry, my head-math was either off slightly or I was thinking at "5 additional" enemies.

The weird thing is that it runs contrary to their "cutting down on big pulls" idea, though still without a consistent formula (e.g. the average of n and √n total potency multiplier).

If they wanted to cut down on AoE through and through, I don't know why they wouldn't just take one total damage formula that allows for equal damage to all enemies hit while tapering its output somewhat. It wouldn't likely change the choice of skill (except perhaps between Rockbreaker and Demolish-spread), but it would at least taper output in line with their alleged intentions. Crippling some, buffing others, and leaving the rest untouched has in this case just imbalanced AoE potential in a new way—"the king is dead; long live the (new) king."

[Shurrikhan]

I gotta agree that it is underpowered. Too little a raid buff for too short a time for too long a cooldown.
Tho I believe they did intend for some raid synergy in an upside-down fashion?

I think you have the right of it there.

Put it this way: consider if the 5% damage buff to the raid were removed, yet the Monk was still intended to be balanced in 8-man content (all other numbers being thus adjusted). What will have changed?

It will simply have become more variant in raid contribution, despite that being entirely personal DPS, based on party size and composition. The first is true of every job with raid DPS bonuses; the second of about half of those same jobs.

Put another way, it would be a nerf to Monk output when in light party content, more in keeping with other classes.

The only question would then be: why didn't they do the same to SAM?

[silentwindfr]

brotherhood is far more underpowered than you can think...
you can look at what the other offer already.

ninja 10% of damage deal by the team on a target every minute
dragoon +15% critic hit for 20 sec every 180 sec...

brotherhood even compared at skill already present is underwhelming...

[wintercoat]

Y'know what one of the biggest slaps in the face is, though? Samurai got the ability Third Eye. Not the class that has spent the entirety of their story doing nothing but opening chakras, no. Samurai.

For those who don't know, the Third Eye is the 6th chakra, which resides in the forehead. Opening it is a fundamental step of attaining inner peace and, eventually nirvana. This is like if SAM was given a ninjutsu, or a jump. They literally gave a core, fundamental aspect of our class's lore identity to Samurai.

To add a bit more weight to this, currently Monks can only open up the first 5 chakras with Meditation. Samurai is able to open the 6th chakra before Monks get to.

[silentwindfr]

samurai had third eyes for very long and this mechanic work perfectly since they had counter.
now i admit i will have wished they had give fist of earth under this form.

[wintercoat]

I know SAM had Third Eye in XI. It's just that, on top of everything else, with MNK still only being able to open the first 5 chakras, even though we've unlocked all 14, had to fight for our lives in order to do so, for SAM to be given the ability to open the 6th just feels like a betrayal.