What's going to be the strength of Dark Knights now?

[Daniel_Fury]

Syphon Strike is 250pot.

You're 100% correct. I was looking at spinning slash. It's a 30 potency loss per 3 GCDS.

[Reynhart]

Albeit small, Bloodspiller is a potency gain.

I think Bloodspiller is very important when you need to burst in a short window.
For example, in a fight like Ravana, you start by accumulating 100 Blood Gauge, allowing for 2-3 DA-Bloospillers when he takes increased damage. You can also time your Bloodspillers during a Battle Litany, or a Trick Attack...

And of course, the calculation is a bit different with Grit activated, even more with the effective increased effect of Dark Arts on Bloodspiller

Example

You example doesn't really fit since you can't use that much Blackest Night on a short window, and BN is not the only way to build your blood gauge.

[Sarcatica]

I think Bloodspiller is very important when you need to burst in a short window.
For example, in a fight like Ravana, you start by accumulating 100 Blood Gauge, allowing for 3 DA-Bloospiller back to back when he takes increased damage. You can also time your Bloodspillers during a Battle Litany, or a Trick Attack...

And of course, the calculation is a bit different with Grit activated, even more with the effective increased effect of Dark Arts on Bloodspiller

Like what I mentioned Bloodspiller is a burst skill and most importantly a GCD that you can use with/without Grit, you don't always have to use it ASAP to get the most value. It would probably feel more awesome if we potentially can charge Blood Gauge prepull because Blackest Night tooltip just says when effect expired you get 50 of it.

[Reynhart]

Like what I mentioned Bloodspiller is a burst skill and most importantly a GCD that you can use with/without Grit, you don't always have to use it ASAP to get the most value. It would probably feel more awesome if we potentially can charge Blood Gauge prepull because Blackest Night tooltip just says when effect expired you get 50 of it.

Well, since no job can really pre-charge their opener, I don't think it will really be a problem. Instead of burst damage occuring on the very 1st GCD, they'll wait after a little set-up.
Time for the SAM to build its Kenki, the NIN to build its Nink, WAR to build its Beast, etc...

[Daniel_Fury]

You example doesn't really fit since you can't use that much Blackest Night on a short window, and BN is not the only way to build your blood gauge.

If you use 1 bloodspiller, you lost one potential heavy slash. Your second bloodspiller was a potential syphon strike and your third bloodspiller was a potential soul eater. If you look at it over the course of an entire encounter it makes sense.

Each black night used was a potential 140 potency in the encounter.

For every 3 BN+BS you lose 30 potency as you lost an extra SE combo and 3 dark arts in that encounter.
This seems fair since you get a 20% hp shield in trade for 10 potency loss.

It doesn't matter that you can't fit them in a short window because it adds up in the duration of the encounter.

Any naturally created BS through SE and utility skills is a dps increase as no gcd has a bigger potency.

If we assume sole survivor has the 10% vulnerable down, squeezing 3 DA BS and a DA C&S would be the dps goal. Which will be available every 2 minutes.

[Reynhart]

If you use 1 bloodspiller, you lost one potential heavy slash. Your second bloodspiller was a potential syphon strike and your third bloodspiller was a potential soul eater. If you look at it over the course of an entire encounter it makes sense.

No, you don't "lose" anything, you "trade".

The calculation is very simple. A SoulEater combo does between 226 and 320 average potency per GCD (Depending on the number of Dark Arts you use). So, basically, any GCD that is worth more than 320 is a DPS gain in your rotation. Bloodspiller is never a DPS loss even witout Dark Arts compared to a full powered SoulEater combo, and even without considering Grit's Penalty.

To take your example step by step :
Bloodspiller vs Hard Slash = +230 potency (Hint : this is the main reason for the overall DPS gain )
Bloodspiller vs DA-Syphon Strike = -10 potency
Bloodspiller vs DA-Soul Eater = -40 potency

3 Bloodspillers vs a full powered SE combo = +180 potency

For the Blackest Night, it's a bit more complicated since you look at optimal MP management, and only field testing or long duration parse will actually offer a definitive answer. But, in my comparison above, I've excluded the MP cost of two Dark Arts on the Bloodspiller side, so you could technically use BN 2 times (Cooldown not withstanding) and build the last 50 gauge normally, and still come out on top.

One thing for sure, however, is that Dark Passenger is garbage, now

[Sarcatica]

One thing for sure, however, is that Dark Passenger is garbage, now

Am I missing something about DP? A 150pot move fot 2400mana is still better than a DA for 140pot? Not to mention it's oGCD.

[Reynhart]

Am I missing something about DP? A 150pot move fot 2400mana is still better than a DA for 140pot? Not to mention it's oGCD.

I'd say if you have the MP to spare, you're better of casting Balckest Night to fill your gauge.
But, technically, yes, it's better to use a basic SoulEater combo and DP than doing a SoulEater combo with one DA...

Frankly, even with the constant drain gone, it will still be a chore to optimize your MP consumption.

[Daniel_Fury]

No, you don't "lose" anything, you "trade".

I agree the 2 BN+ BS and 1 natural BS is stronger than a full powered SE combo.

I'm basically stating that using BN 3 times to pop 3 blood spillers is a loss compared to a full SE combo because 3x 140 potencies from what could of been DAs plus the 70 potency of mp from SS (half a DA) is 30 less potency in both skill potency + MP potency. We can also consider that SE you traded for BS generates 1/5th of a natural BS (74 potential potency).

You may not be able to use 3 DA'S in that one combo but you can bank that extra 210 potency of MP for later.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Shouldnt we look at the MP gain from Syphon strike as Potency? (If you do, and assuming you use DA as often as you're able, you must remove the +140 potency you add into the equation from using DA)
(for the sake of simplifying)
DA equates +140 potency to any of the 3 skills used.
And syphon strikes Mp gain is half (unless Im getting the wrong number here), so it should be +70 potency to each syphon strike.
Anything that takes up MP, but doesnt directly add dmg, should be calculated as -potency for the MP cost (if its equal to a DA, then -140 potency in the case of TBN)

This should help make the equations easier to read.

(obviously things like ending mid combo, because boss jumps away or dies, changes which rotation was at its highest potency at the last GCD)

If TBN can be used when the boss jumps away, that adds a bit more possibilities, due to turning off Dark Side to gain MP back when the boss does this.
(I cant count the number of videos I watch where DRKs leave Dark Side on when Alexander freezes them in time, when you can get your MP back up during that, even more so if BRD was mid ballad, as they usually are.)