Suggestion: The Role Tri-Bind Plays in 4.0

[Neela]

Right on Val +1

Haven't used bliz2 for month cause no need for it. The whole problem why so many people cry now is they aren't used to move forward - if u dislike the way SE goes with Smns the answer is easy: switch cls. The ones who will remain are smns from heart watching in the future openminded. Those are the ones who will define the new role of this cls. Those are the ones who keep up theorycrafting and building guides.

I'm looking forward to all the changes and the opportunity to be part of those who try, fail, stand up and try again until the comm found a new place for us. Was smn in AAR, loved smn in HW and can't wait to see what's up for us in SB - we will find a place like always and that's what makes this cls so outstanding for me - a cls which is rebuild completely with every major update. One cls compared to others which will never get boring cause of so many ways you can play it.

[Silverquick]

Well I have just gotten done recording the damage on my various techniques... that according to the Tooltips we've recieved are going to be nerfed.

So I will know pretty much exactly how much we lost in terms of my real numbers. Including the average pet damage.
So we'll see how it shakes out. According to the information we have we got a 30% nerf to our DoTs, and 25% damage nerf to Ruin 3... and by extension probably a good 60% or more nerf on AoEs by losing Bliz 2, Miasma II, and the BANE overnerf.

Because obviously the minute the expansion hits I'm going to go out and test it on the same targets...

The only thing we didn't lose was the 200 potency Painflare and the 400 potency Deathflare. The wildcard is the Enkindle Potencies... as I haven't checked those, but because of the 3 minute recast timer on them they only play a minor role in the overall damage, which is about once every 3 encounters.

So we've lost an enormous chunk...

And I can guarantee you at this point... our Single Target damage won't even compare to a BLM.... not with Nerfed DoTs and a Nerfed Ruin 3.

And our AoEs are based on a 60 second Aetherflow recast timer... meaning he can do his Fire 2 + Flare rotation over and over again... once your Painflares are gone... and your Deathflare is gone... you're done because there won't be any DoTs ticking anymore. And there will be no Bliz 2 to save you if its not enough.

So unless these Tooltips are WAY wrong and Bane wasn't nerfed... (Which is what we're secretly hoping.... and that they increase the potency on Tri-Bind to make up for the Bliz 2 and Miasma 2 loss)....

then... I'm pretty sure at this point...... few will ever play a Summoner again. If they can even make it up the levels..... as the Nerfs hit ALL levels of the class from Arcanist all the way to Summoner (And even kick Scholar in the rear too).

It will make it completely pointless to play a SMN as it will be outclassed by every other job in the scope.

[Neela]

And again you are just comparing raw pots - we dont know yet how the MaM, egi buffs and procs turn out nor the temporary Ruin pot buff. There is an enkindle cd reduce proc + 2x adv. enkindle per trance they alone provide 1300 pot in a 20 sec flow-finisher. Also the shorter ogcd will increase overall pot. It's rumored that several tooltips have mistakes in translation als well. So please dont point your statement as fact - simply because u cant know the real output yet.

You cant guarante anything. Theorycrafting is more than just raw pot numbers.

edit:

It will make it completely pointless to play a SMN as it will be outclassed by every other job in the scope.

if u think so just stick to Blm - u would do me and others a favour. it doesnt matter if the smn clan will shrink again like in ARR when everybody laughed about smns until lots of the guys who made jokes about them followed us in HW like the classy WTJs in every mmo if something gets op - in this case aoe dmg. Just move on it's fine for me ^^

[Silverquick]

And again you are just comparing raw pots - we dont know yet how the MaM, egi buffs and procs turn out nor the temporary Ruin pot buff. Also the shorter ogcd will increase overall pot. It's rumored that several tooltips have mistakes in translation als well. So please dont point your statement als fact - simply because u cant know the real output yet.

You cant guarante anything.

Neela, a chance for -10 seconds on Enkindle is way low when we're talking a full 3 minute recast timer... Ruin 4 only has a 15% chance to proc... and then its still ONLY the level of the old Ruin 3..... So we're nerfed until we even get it and then we'll only be doing the old Ruin 3 damage only 15% of the time. Egi Buffs we can't judge yet, but some were buffs, some were nerfs, so its likely to be a push, and all that still would have to make up for lost 30-40 potency per tick in DoTs... and a lost 50 potency in Ruin 3 from current level comparisons... not likely going to happen.
But even after that leveling from an Arcanist through Summoner to level 70 will be greatly damaged... we already know it will be completely outclassed there.

That said... We do agree on one thing... There is a possibility the tooltips were wrong or mistranslated... so I will wait until I see it in game... and I am personally praying for it. But... if they are what they look like... then those nerfs hit from Arcanist all the way to Summoner... and we'll likely be completely outclassed by every other job at what they do best.

Both of us are praying the Tooltips are seriously in error... (and I personally am hoping Tri-Bind potency gets upgraded so this thing won't be hellish to play when level synced)

But I can't rationally justify playing this job to anyone if it actually plays the way it currently looks like it will from the tooltips we currently have.

[Neela]

Let's just wait and see - it wont be that bad. We will talk in August if things have been worked out, trust me you will be surprised. ^^

You know what makes me sad? Although we obviously cant stand each other that well, i thought you really try to become a good smn fighting with me and others day for day, getting knockbacks for every 2nd post u do regarding this cls and theorycrafting... you stand your ground. it doesnt matter if you lack in experience or thoughts but since the release of the skilltooltips all you said is "Bad here Bad there Bad everywhere" - if your passion to a cls is really that strong u seem to sell us you should focus on the opportunities to create/find something good out of it. Hard to say for me... but honest: you definitly arent a good HW smn in my eyes BUT you can become a good SB smn... if you wont be that negative about the upcoming changes.

[Silverquick]

Well I'm sitting on 360 Coms as a Summoner after only playing the game for 3 months... so I was obviously a very good HW Summoner...

As to sticking around for SB..... Not going to happen Neela...

I... like most other SMNs (If the other forums I am also reading are correct)... am only giving this until launch... to make sure it isn't what it appears to be on the surface... but the clock is ticking.

If it is... I can't justify anyone playing this job anymore...it will be outclassed by every job in every one of their specialties... and we will lose our previous specialty and nich on top of that....

And given the nerfs to the Arcanist side too and all the way up the chain... unlikely many will ever even play it up to those levels anymore either.

No one wants to play a broken class or job

[Neela]

Obviously a very good smn? whatever makes ya feel better...

[Silverquick]

While we're at it Neela... I find it questionable as to whether you even play SMN anymore... or even will once these changes take place....

[Neela]

Since release daily - like i said in the unfamous days of ARR (when we hadnt ANY burst or aoe except enkindle on a FIVE minute cd) throughout our golden hour with Heavensward until 2day and that wont change with SB - compared to you who joined 3 month ago (on smns peak) and will leave in 2 weeks like a rat on a sinking ship -> this is classy wtj at it's best... and because of this mentality you wont get deep enough into any cls to gather experience for valid discussions or theories which are worth to think about.

[Silverquick]

Well Neela... You know if the Devs would stop nerfing the crap out of everything every expansion... or keep trying to fix what isn't broken...

....perhaps... you'd probably have more people sticking around for the job they wanted to play in the first place... this half assed wrecking ball crap is just driving people away.

They finally fixed it after years of ARR neglect... finally in Heavensward... it was back on its feet.

And now its like they want to throw all that out the window again...