What's going to be the strength of Dark Knights now?

[Tint]

Truth be told, I'm impressed on how many people seems to have already joined the OP PLD bandwagon

... so what else should we do in the mean time?

[Marz_kid_EST]

Dps wise:
PLD has 562.5 potency/GCD,
WAR has 458.7 potency/GCD,
DRK has 430.6 potency/GCD,

Damn but like where are the calculations? You can't just not show your work and post numbers? It's like math class? xD Considering how easily SE nerfed certain abilities for DRK, I doubt they'd make PLD the overall best tank in terms of dps AND mitigation...unless they wanna go back and "rebalance" them next patch after all the complaints lol

[Bhearil]

Didnt do the maths myself but found a few links :

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ur-information
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=698917636

Logically those numbers SHOULD change on release, but question is how much and if it will worth it or will just create a new X/Y tank meta leaving Z tank on the trash bin

[Decederes]

Considering how easily SE nerfed certain abilities for DRK, I doubt they'd make PLD the overall best tank in terms of dps AND mitigation lol

You greatly overestimate whether or not they care. At this point the whole "balancing" thing isn't at all what they are doing. They didn't "balance" whm, and they didn't "balance" the tanks. If anything the amount of imbalance makes it appear as if they simply didn't have time or resources to add a tank and healer to this patch so their excuse was, "we're going to balance!" and then they immediately get called out for a bunch of things not adding up. We all get this is subject to change... but 2-3 months out of an expansion I should not be seeing numbers that show PLD being OP in EVERY area (physical dmg, magic dmg, mitigation, pt mitigation, self healing, pt healing, etc). They didn't balance anything, they just created a new super tank like WAR was. It's frustrating.

[Sarcatica]

Dps wise:
PLD has 562.5 potency/GCD,
WAR has 458.7 potency/GCD,
DRK has 430.6 potency/GCD,

562.5pot/GCD is insane? Paladin's biggest window is only during the Holy Spirit spam + Requiescat, those are about 500pot/GCD but not certainly the GB>RA>RA, even less potency overall in Shield Oath.

If we go by the number itself, 20% penalty from ShO is enough to bring down the whole Holy Spirit spam to about 420pot each GCD. Then GB>RA>RA>GB period + FoF with ShO is somewhere around 310pot/GCD (over 12GCD + the end tick from GB). 562.5 potency/GCD is ridiculously high.

DRK at 430.6pot/GCD seems a bit too much as well. While DRKs should have easier time to stance dance that they can get more damage from the Blood Gauge + 20% Darkside, 430.6pot/GCD seems too high. Hard Slash is like 150pot (180pot with Darkside), Syphon Strike is 250pot (300pot with Darkside), 430.6pot/GCD means that you have to keep using DA but you are never in this state where you have all the mana to keep using DA and DRK's highest potency is DA+CnS (450pot without Darkside).

[BlackironTarkus]

Those were calculated as off tank values from what I can see. War in Deliverance full time, DRK with darkside on and grit off, PLD in Sword Oath.

Fast - Riot - Goring - Fast - Riot - Royal - Fast - Riot - Royal loop

(150+230+540+150+230+360+150+230+360) / 9 = 266.7

Autos every 2.24 seconds (weapon speed).
GCD on tanks is currently 2.44. PLD hits 1.09 times per GCD, * 100 pot = 109

266.7 + 109 = 375.7

Circle = 250 (100+150DoT), 25s recast. 250/25 = 10/second. 10* 2.44(GCD) = 24.4

375.7 + 24.4 = 400.1

Requiescat = 350, 60s recast. 350/60 = 5.83/second. 5.83 * 2.44 = 14.23

400.1 + 14.23 = 414.33

Fight or Flight increases all physical damage (all we have covered so far) by 30% for 30 seconds every 60 seconds. In other terms that means +30% * 50% uptime = +15% average.

414.33 * 1.15 = 476.48

Turn on Sword oath:
((2.44/2.24)*150)-109 = 54.39 more, not increased by FoF.

476.48 + 54.39 = 530.87

Before Holy Spirit is even accounted for.

[Bdyer]

A good question for dps calculations.... while doing Holy Spirit since that is a spell... does it remove or delay auto attacks?

I can't say I've ever smacked an enemy with an auto attack and then cast a spell with less than gcd and then count my number of auto attacks .

Also I don't think the war or drk numbers counted in auto attacks

[BlackironTarkus]

You raise a fair point and I lack the skills to fully simulate a PLD rotation with POT/GCD.

Still, I think there's something to be said about what is essentially 531 potency per GCD while ignoring what seems to be an extremely power asset of their kit (+20% magic windows in which 420 potency Holy Spirits become 516 potency).

The current combo average plus autos is 375.7 (430.09 in SwO). If you beat that by any amount it increases the POT/GCD. 516 vastly beats that.
EDIT: Side note, under the values from the media tour, a PLD with sword oath on only using his combo skills, no oGCDs or Fight or Flight, will tie for damage with a DRK going HAM. All of the potency values *need* to be adjusted.

[Reynhart]

lots of calculation

By doing the same addition on current PLD, here's what I find.
FB-RB-GB-FB-SB-RA-FB-SB-RA = 2320/9 = 257.78
Same auto-attack damage (I didn't see any change in Stormblood), so 109
Same Circle Of Scorn, so 24.4
No Requiescat
FoF with only 1/3 uptime, so +10%

(257.78+109+24.4)*1.1=430.21

Adding Sword Oath (With no change, IIRC), it's 430.21+54.39 = 484.6.

PLD has 562.5 potency/GCD,
WAR has 458.7 potency/GCD,
DRK has 430.6 potency/GCD

So, in the end, even the current PLD apparently have a higher average potency/GCD than what theorycraft shows on future WAR and DRK.

Between HW and SB, WAR lost Fracture and Internal Release and gained Inner Release, Onslaught and more frequent Infuriates. Berserk was only smoothed in the end and the pacification was removed. I'd hardly consider all of this a "nerf", yet we all know that current WAR can do noticeably higher DPS than current PLD.

So, maybe, just maybe, theory is not that close of actual field testing.

[Bdyer]

Test ........

By doing the same addition on current PLD, here's what I find.
FB-RB-GB-FB-SB-RA-FB-SB-RA = 2320/9 = 257.78
Same auto-attack damage (I didn't see any change in Stormblood), so 109
Same Circle Of Scorn, so 24.4
No Requiescat
FoF with only 1/3 uptime, so +10%

(257.78+109+24.4)*1.1=430.21

Adding Sword Oath (With no change, IIRC), it's 430.21+54.39 = 484.6.

So, in the end, even the current PLD apparently have a higher average potency/GCD than what theorycraft shows on future WAR and DRK.

Between HW and SB, WAR lost Fracture and Internal Release and gained Inner Release, Onslaught and more frequent Infuriates. Berserk was only smoothed in the end and the pacification was removed. I'd hardly consider all of this a "nerf", yet we all know that current WAR can do noticeably higher DPS than current PLD.

So, maybe, just maybe, theory is not that close of actual field testing.

Not sure where the drk and War numbers came from. Making the following assumption I came out to 495 for drk.

All ogcds are used on cooldown
Not in grit
Da is ONLY used for carve and spit
Only use souleater combo:

2640 (4 SE combos)
+ 500 scourge
+144 low blow
+ 150 dark passenger
+ 350 salted earth
+ 200 plunge
+ 225 carve and split
=323 *1.15* 1.0375+ 109 (auto attack) = 495 per gcd currently

Further uses of dark arts on souleater in 30 seconds will increase potency of 10 per use.

For future drk making the following assumptions:
All non gauge ogcds are used on cooldown
Da is only used for carve and split
Bloodspitter is used at the 50 gauge mark without using blackest night
No grit
Only soul eater combo
2720 (basic combo)
150 ( dp)
350 ( salted earth)
225 (carve and split)
200 (plunge)
475 bloodsplitter
= 316* 1.2* 1.0375 +109 = 502

Further uses of da every 30 secs will increase potency by at least 10

My conclusion? Dark knight overall damage remained close to what it was potency wise. Tanking out of grit was removed, and some extra party utility was added.