Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Taika]

You can call me a White Knight all you want.....but to see it come down to so many people insulting Yoshi P making statements that his opinion is worthless or that he does not have a &%$#ing clue how the game should be played is just beyond sad.

It's not being disrespectful pointing out that many things Yoshi P says are and have been very much out of touch with how the game is actually played. You need to seperate developer intentions and factual gameplay. The latter is what defines player expectations, the first one is what Yoshi P is able to talk about. The fact is, the developers implement design choices that are against their described intentions. Pointing this out is not disrespectful, it's just saying how things are (of course you can say those things in a disrespectful manner, but that I haven't seen in this thread on the pages I've read at least).

If you are in a group and the people in your party respectfully ask you to DPS a little....what is the harm in trying? Does that mean if you are still new to the game that you may mess up and accidently kill the party...yes! But to be fair, you need to disclose to these players that you are still new at DPSing as a healer so they can understand that mistakes may happen....and they should not be angry if it does as you have clearly warned them ahead of time respectfully.

This is literally the only thing the pro-DPS people are asking: for healers to try to be helpful when asked and you don't have a reason not to (like completely new to instance, having a massive headache and just trying to get through your roulette or whatever). If I see a healer not DPSing at all, I will say something like "Hey healer, when the tank isn't taking much damage and no one else is any danger either, could you please throw some DoTs / Holy / Gravity to make things go smoother? " Then, if they at least try, I appreciate that. If they say they really can't right now for whatever reason, that's alright. But if they say "lol no that's not my job", if they flat out refuse to even try to help out when they could, that's when I'll initiate the vote kick (but first I will explain why healer DPS is so helpful to the whole group).

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Taika, your right that it is not disrespectful to point out your disagreement on what SE or Yoshi P is doing. But it is disrespectful to call them "clueless" or "dumb" and a whole bunch of other things you or I can read from posters. And I agree with your second point completely, as long as these Pro-DPS players understand that they should not force those same players to DPS. It should not be something anyone should be forced to do even if you feel it is the most logical thing. But I promise you, if I am healing and if I get asked to DPS as a healer nicely.....heck yes I will! Bottomline, respect on both sides goes a long way to get things done!

[Lambdafish]

This is literally the only thing the pro-DPS people are asking

This is the thing that I hate, the absolute backward idea that the pro-dps argument is that healers ARE DPS. I think it might be our own fault for naming the argument wrong (I'd settle for calling it the "pro-not standing around and idling" argument), or even having the damage dealing role having the same name as the idea of dealing damage in general, making it hard to distinguish between the concept of dealing damage, and what the role of DPS entails (using cooldowns, buffs, and rotations to maximise personal and raid DPS efficiency, something which is different from healer damage).

My biggest issue with the anti-dps argument isn't that people aren't DPSing in content, that would actually be fine, and is harmless and simply bad practice. What I want to know is why the hell is it an argument?? Why is it a valid thing to say "this is an acceptable way to play"?
I can perform badly and nobody bat an eyelid, I can go through a dungeon without using storms eye on WAR and people probably wouldn't care. What is not acceptable is for me to then come to the forums and start advocating that "I shouldn't have to use storms eye", because the FACT is that while me using it or not is my choice, there is no justification to support me publically advocating the "playstyle". Oh, and I chose that example because storms eye increases DPS on a job that isn't a DPS.

[YitharV2]

You can call me a White Knight all you want.....but to see it come down to so many people insulting Yoshi P making statements that his opinion is worthless or that he does not have a &%$#ing clue how the game should be played is just beyond sad.

Okay. Let me just list some stuff for you then. If I am to put it nicely, I take what Yoshi-P says with a huge grain of salt. 2.0 WAR was really bad yet he apparently told players that they just weren't playing the class as it was intended to be. I think that had to be somewhat of an insult to the playerbase.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...0_war/diduw1j/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...apons/desxkzx/

Why can't you guys accept you have a right to play how and with whomever you want?

Because not trying to DPS at all is a lazy playstyle. All the pro-DPS people are just asking is for healers to try to DPS when asked, to put in a little effort.

This is the thing that I hate, the absolute backward idea that the pro-dps argument is that healers ARE DPS.

If this was another game I'd agree with you but in this game everything is pretty much a DPS, even though some are hybrid DPS. There's no pure support class in this game.

That's not the only idea behind it. The thing is, you have downtime unless you overheal a lot. So you can either AFK or DPS.

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Yithar...respectfully...did you not see the part of my post where I wrote "But, this does not negate on what these other players are saying as a great portion of them have extremely valid points. If you are in a group and the people in your party respectfully ask you to DPS a little....what is the harm in trying?" or are you deliberately trying to make it look like I didn't say that to discredit my post?

[YitharV2]

Yithar...respectfully...did you not see the part of my post where I wrote "But, this does not negate on what these other players are saying as a great portion of them have extremely valid points. If you are in a group and the people in your party respectfully ask you to DPS a little....what is the harm in trying?" or are you deliberately trying to make it look like I didn't say that to discredit my post?

No, that wasn't my intention. I apologize if it came off that way. I'm just trying to emphasize that even though we can't force other players to play the way we want, that it is lazy to play like that and that most players just want to see effort. That's why most can't accept it, because you literally have to not be pressing any buttons half the time.

[Mature]

People needs get around and accept and simple fact

If you gonna go and be a healer make sure you heal your party as intended. If you wish to DPS , please do. If you wish not to DPS that's absolutely fine as long as your main job as a healer has fulfilled it's purpose.

This is something so simple to understand that people seemed to think that DPSing as a healer is mandatory when it's clearly NOT.

at the end of the day if you not happy about it. feel free to drop the party and find another group where the healer does what you want them to do.

MOVE ON and be HAPPY.

[Lambdafish]

If this was another game I'd agree with you but in this game everything is pretty much a DPS, even though some are hybrid DPS. There's no pure support class in this game.

That's not the only idea behind it. The thing is, you have downtime unless you overheal a lot. So you can either AFK or DPS.

You might want to re-read what I said, I'm complaining about the counterargument to the pro-DPS argument, people say "but I'm not a DPS" like it has any bearing on what is actually being asked of them, and that is the completely wrong angle to make an argument from for the exact reason that you pointed out.

[TheRealMadruck]

No, that wasn't my intention. I apologize if it came off that way. I'm just trying to emphasize that even though we can't force other players to play the way we want, that it is lazy to play like that and that most players just want to see effort. That's why most can't accept it, because you literally have to not be pressing any buttons half the time.

I understand Yithar and thank you for that clarification. As I said, if others ask nicely for healers to dps....I think they should. It all comes down to communication!

[MistakeNot]

People needs get around and accept and simple fact

The fact that healers who do not do any DPS even when there is no real need to heal for substantial periods of time during combat, they are poor players who come across as lazy?
That is a fact, regardless of if healer DPSing is mandatory or not.